Somebody trying to tell me masks don’t work and they say they’ve seen studies blah blah . I’m pretty sure they’re wrong but what’s the best most convincing evidence to change somebody’s mind?
Sneeze in their face twice
Once with a mask and once without
See what they prefer
There is a point to be made that engaging bullshit is not for the benefit of the bullshitter, but rather for other people reading in on the conversation. This stops being useful when the positions on a particular debate have already been as thoroughly galvanized as the one on face masks, though.
The backfire effect study is in reproducability hell and the effect might not even be real. If it is, it's far more rare than the pop science version of it that's eveywhere.
Masks don't prevent the spread of pathogens, they inhibit it. It's one more barrier to infectivity that's best applied as one part of a broad strategy for controlling contagion. They're still much better than nothing. Even an inferior mask means fewer pathogens expelled from or hitting the face. And viral load is important! It's an underappreciated component of infectivity. It really is a numbers game at the microscopic level.
This isn't correct. Viruses don't float freely in the air, they're attached to particles (water droplets in this case) of varying size. Furthermore, even if they were somehow individually present brownian motion captures most particles smaller than 0.3nm. Also, N95 masks use an electrostatic layer for added protection. There's even n95 surgical masks. Masks do have to be worn correctly to achieve proper filtration but there have been numerous studies confirming the stated efficacy of the n95 standard for particles of various sizes.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304389421017507#tbl0005
https://groups.oist.jp/nnp/diy-face-mask
https://web.archive.org/web/20230214144841/https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/11/fact-check-n-95-filters-not-too-large-stop-covid-19-particles/5343537002/
i think you meant um instead of nm for brownian motion also brownian motion isn't at play in flow, so it doesn't apply to the movement of particles through a filter. there is no electrostatic layer specified by the n95 standard, it's just a cheap way to get away with looser weaves and still pass the spec. there are no procedure masks that meet the n95 standard (idk what you mean by n95 surgical masks).
there are viruses that either form a spore or otherwise can float freely in air and due to some either bad reporting or scaremongering we had a few months back in '21 where people believed covid-19 was one of em. afaik its not but i didn't wanna make an already long post even longer and that's a bear to write on mobile.
i'm with you that masks slow down the process of getting infected with covid. this last few years have tested our literacy in a crazy way.
So yeah, “masks” don’t “work”, but they’re better than nothing and are effective in reducing the rate of transmission.
Essentially this, how this simple message got all jumbled up is beyond me.
Obviously a difference a language. Semantics. Bleh
When I say masks work, I mean that they reduce spread by enough that it's worth bothering with them.
When they say masks don't work, they mean that they don't necessarily work in 100% of all situations, therefore they shouldn't bother with them.
Okay, so when a person says masks they’re either talking about n95 style masks or procedure masks. N95 style masks have a rigid shape, are tighter fitting and actually have a standard applied to them, procedure masks are looser fitting, have a kinda flimsy cloth construction and don’t really have a set standard.
Its like the steel cap shoes I wore to work, they certainly invite my foot being crushed when stuff doesn't fall onto my toes and invites penetration by nails at my joints, though in practice those hurt vectors are rare. I won't do storage work without that protection.
Even out on the sidewalk
Unless you are in a dense city with streets less than 10m wide from building to building, AND there is lots of foot traffic, AND there is no wind or sun, you don't need to worry about wearing a mask outdoors. It's mostly the shared/public indoor spaces that are important to wear masks in.
Maddeningly, the places where you have the greatest need to mask up are the places with the lowest oxygen content.
No use. Reactionaryism is a religion. They think anything right-wing is gospel, and they despise leftists for going beyond simply disagreeing with them. Worse, we're heretics!
But if you still want the studies and stuff:
You're right, they're absolutely and embarrasingly wrong. Ask them why doctors wear masks if they don't work. Inquire if they think fish cannot be caught by nets, or if they'd be comfortable drinking unfiltered water from a stagnant pond. It's really truly common sense that wearing a filter over your breathing holes is an effective means of mitigation without any further evidence so long as you understand that respiratory viruses are overwhelmingly transmitted through droplets that you exhale. Even a bandana/dog shit cloth mask is going to reduce you spreading covid, the chance of you catching it, and the probable severity if you do catch it by reducing the viral load. Which isn't to say that cloth masks aren't vastly inferior to kf94 (and up) masks - just to illustrate that even the lowest common denominator has an effect.
This is a pretty good resource that shaped my intuition/threat analysis.
https://elpais.com/especiales/coronavirus-covid-19/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air/
My post about this is going to get deleted so look in the modlog.
I don’t even know how to look in the modlog tbh I’m not online enough.
Click modlog link in the sidebar or at the bottom of the page, post starts with “okay, so”, appropriately enough.
Just don't. These people are broken. They think masks are WEF slavery and humilation devices to restrict freedom and enforce conformity. They also don't want people to mandate their hygine like shave your tree beard because you can't get a good seal. Or use moisture wicking tri layer cotton masks so your snot breath doesn't slather down your nasty ragged mop face because you refuse to shave your mess out of stubborn free dumb.
The point with masks is people have to use them in order to minimize the risk to others around them. That means everyone needs to use them in the room for maximum prevention. It is also courtesy to others around you if you are feeling ill in general. Asia figured this out long ago. Over multiple SARS and flu events.
Masks are to minimize the risk to others going out from a potential infected by capturing the water droplets the virus sheds out on. Not from you acquiring the virus from the air you breathe so much, and anti maskers will go on about the last point because they fundementally don't understand the concept. Not all masks are created equal either. Not all rooms and their airflow are created equal.
Even if you point to studies of different mask effectiveness and percentage reduced blah blah you will run into how blue masks shed plastic and synthetic fibers or chemicals that cause cancer. Insert N95 masks or what I've been using tri layer cotton masks which I think fit better and have natural fibers and can be washed and reused.
They'll point to how the virus is smaller than pathogens or vapor droplets, even though they are sticking to the vapor is how they get out and trapped, some may make it through. So because not 100% they opt for 0% because free dumb.
Sorry if this seems cynical. Too much :reddit-logo: has made it a lost cause to try to do a logic with these people.
All the government health bodies (the Amerikan CDC, the UK Ministry of Health, the WHO) say that masks prevent the spread of COVID. Who the fuck are they to question the opinion of basically every epidemiologist.
There's a lot of contradictory studies, and it's overly confusing and political for non specialists to make this call. Whatever your friends is, he isn't a public health specialist.
