Liu Cixin’s the Three-Body Problem book trilogy is one of the world’s bestselling Chinese sci-fi series, being read and endorsed by figures such as George R.R. Martin and Barack Obama. In Chinese public debates, however, critics highlight the series’ social Darwinist, misogynistic, and totalitarian tendencies, raising concerns about how the trilogy has been used by […]
I don't really agree with this and totally fucking love these books. However, it is a fairly interesting essay.
he Aliens in Three Body invaded earth because they believed they had no other option
I haven't read the books, but this seriously implies that it being "more optimistic" than real life is pretty much bullshit. Any space-faring civilization that relies on exponential growth like capitalism and colonialism does is a hilariously inefficient civilization, and without those things committing massive, costly war crimes for no reason other than "we don't trust them uwu they're scawy" is really, really silly. Dark Forest theory is weird and silly
From the Preface of the Three Body Problem when it was first serialized in the “Sci-Fi World” magazine in 2004:
作者试图讲述一部在光年尺度上重新演绎的中国现代史
I (the author) will attempt to narrate a re-interpretation of Modern Chinese History spanning the scale of light years.
Modern Chinese history = starting from the First Opium War in 1840
It really is a political and social commentary packaged with cool sci-fi concepts.
All you have to imagine is you’re a Chinese patriot in the late 19th century, right before the collapse of the Qing dynasty, helplessly watching the rapid industrialization and modernization of Imperial Japan that is just 4 light years away, an island nation with little access to raw resources needed to accommodate for the vast expansion of their industrial capacity. A military expansion into a China too weak to defend itself, and its eventual colonization by the Japanese to gain access to its rich resources, is all but a certainty.
The series is all about the anxiety of the Chinese civilization being surrounded in a sea of industrializing imperialist powers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, being caught between the imperialist power struggle between the US and the USSR during the Cold War (note: in China, it is not controversial to see the USSR as having imperialist ambitions against China. The Sino-Soviet split did happen after all).
Which route should China take to ensure its survival in this endless struggle among the imperialists? What are the deterrent options for China? Should it join the imperialist power struggle itself (as reluctant as it is), or should it lay low and present itself as non-threatening as possible to the imperialist powers? Is it really possible to reason with the imperialists? Is it really possible to co-exist peacefully with the other imperialist powers?
These are very real and dreadful questions that have pervaded the intellectual sphere of the Chinese society in the early 2000s, when the novels were first written. The tension between the US and China had never been higher, with the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia in 1999, followed by the Hainan Island incident in 2001. War was seriously about to break out between the US and China in 2001, and only to be averted when 9/11 happened and the US pivoted away from China and towards the Middle East.
If you think the tension between the US and China is getting worse today, then you have no idea how it felt in the early 2000s, when China was far weaker than it is today.
The whole series was conceived from an author who grew up with the Cold War mentality and once you have understood this perspective, you start to see why the Dark Forest theory which was born out of game theory resonates with people who have experienced the threats of being colonized and annihilated by foreign imperialist powers acting in pursuit of relentless capital expansion.
Ultimately, it is about the fear of how human civilization possessing weapons of mass destruction could end up destroying the entire planet if acted purely on rational thinking alone. It is about seeking the balance between being rational and realistic about foreign hostilities while retaining the compassion - traits that define our humanity - to survive in a capitalist world.
Yeah but I’m not talking about as a metaphor for history, when taken as a metaphor, sure, it’s understandable. I’m talking about actual Dark Forest theory as it applies to the actual universe outside of our planet. The idea of a planet reaching proper space travel while still being run by capital is almost comical, I mean we’ve SEEN Elon Musk, there’s no way this economic system is going to last long enough to actually have proper space travel, the only question for us is if we die along with it
I understand it’s an “attractive” concept to people who have been colonized by capitalist empires, but that’s basically tacitly admitting that it’s a projection of our current situation
It’s science fiction, that’s the whole point. Liu Cixin said in his interviews that many of the stuff he wrote about are unrealistic, but did so because they are necessary to make a good story and to bring out the philosophical questions he wanted to raise.
There is no way to prove if the Dark Forest hypothesis holds in reality or not, so you might as well have a little fun with it. Whether you think it’s the iron law of the universe or just a silly fantasy - it’s still our own projections based on our own interpretation of how the world should work.
Yeah I'm not criticizing the book, really. Idk I just don't like dark forest theory, if someone wants to use it in their book but is fine with it just being a fictional thing added as a flourish that's totally fine with me.
The whole series was conceived from an author who grew up with the Cold War mentality and once you have understood this perspective, you start to see why the Dark Forest theory which was born out of game theory resonates with people who have experienced the threats of being colonized and annihilated by foreign imperialist powers acting in pursuit of relentless capital expansion.
Unless the way the books articulate the theory is substantially different from how other people are articulating the theory, it isn't very good game theory. And isn't what you're saying just the Horizontal Alliance vs Vertical Alliance of the Warring States period except from the POV of the non-hegemon?
invading earth isn't the same thing as war crimes/putting people into "reservations"? you can, like, go somewhere and live there WITHOUT killing everyone who already lives there
I haven't read the books, but this seriously implies that it being "more optimistic" than real life is pretty much bullshit. Any space-faring civilization that relies on exponential growth like capitalism and colonialism does is a hilariously inefficient civilization, and without those things committing massive, costly war crimes for no reason other than "we don't trust them uwu they're scawy" is really, really silly. Dark Forest theory is weird and silly
From the Preface of the Three Body Problem when it was first serialized in the “Sci-Fi World” magazine in 2004:
Modern Chinese history = starting from the First Opium War in 1840
It really is a political and social commentary packaged with cool sci-fi concepts.
All you have to imagine is you’re a Chinese patriot in the late 19th century, right before the collapse of the Qing dynasty, helplessly watching the rapid industrialization and modernization of Imperial Japan that is just 4 light years away, an island nation with little access to raw resources needed to accommodate for the vast expansion of their industrial capacity. A military expansion into a China too weak to defend itself, and its eventual colonization by the Japanese to gain access to its rich resources, is all but a certainty.
The series is all about the anxiety of the Chinese civilization being surrounded in a sea of industrializing imperialist powers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, being caught between the imperialist power struggle between the US and the USSR during the Cold War (note: in China, it is not controversial to see the USSR as having imperialist ambitions against China. The Sino-Soviet split did happen after all).
Which route should China take to ensure its survival in this endless struggle among the imperialists? What are the deterrent options for China? Should it join the imperialist power struggle itself (as reluctant as it is), or should it lay low and present itself as non-threatening as possible to the imperialist powers? Is it really possible to reason with the imperialists? Is it really possible to co-exist peacefully with the other imperialist powers?
These are very real and dreadful questions that have pervaded the intellectual sphere of the Chinese society in the early 2000s, when the novels were first written. The tension between the US and China had never been higher, with the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia in 1999, followed by the Hainan Island incident in 2001. War was seriously about to break out between the US and China in 2001, and only to be averted when 9/11 happened and the US pivoted away from China and towards the Middle East.
If you think the tension between the US and China is getting worse today, then you have no idea how it felt in the early 2000s, when China was far weaker than it is today.
The whole series was conceived from an author who grew up with the Cold War mentality and once you have understood this perspective, you start to see why the Dark Forest theory which was born out of game theory resonates with people who have experienced the threats of being colonized and annihilated by foreign imperialist powers acting in pursuit of relentless capital expansion.
Ultimately, it is about the fear of how human civilization possessing weapons of mass destruction could end up destroying the entire planet if acted purely on rational thinking alone. It is about seeking the balance between being rational and realistic about foreign hostilities while retaining the compassion - traits that define our humanity - to survive in a capitalist world.
Yeah but I’m not talking about as a metaphor for history, when taken as a metaphor, sure, it’s understandable. I’m talking about actual Dark Forest theory as it applies to the actual universe outside of our planet. The idea of a planet reaching proper space travel while still being run by capital is almost comical, I mean we’ve SEEN Elon Musk, there’s no way this economic system is going to last long enough to actually have proper space travel, the only question for us is if we die along with it
I understand it’s an “attractive” concept to people who have been colonized by capitalist empires, but that’s basically tacitly admitting that it’s a projection of our current situation
It’s science fiction, that’s the whole point. Liu Cixin said in his interviews that many of the stuff he wrote about are unrealistic, but did so because they are necessary to make a good story and to bring out the philosophical questions he wanted to raise.
There is no way to prove if the Dark Forest hypothesis holds in reality or not, so you might as well have a little fun with it. Whether you think it’s the iron law of the universe or just a silly fantasy - it’s still our own projections based on our own interpretation of how the world should work.
Yeah I'm not criticizing the book, really. Idk I just don't like dark forest theory, if someone wants to use it in their book but is fine with it just being a fictional thing added as a flourish that's totally fine with me.
Unless the way the books articulate the theory is substantially different from how other people are articulating the theory, it isn't very good game theory. And isn't what you're saying just the Horizontal Alliance vs Vertical Alliance of the Warring States period except from the POV of the non-hegemon?
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invading earth isn't the same thing as war crimes/putting people into "reservations"? you can, like, go somewhere and live there WITHOUT killing everyone who already lives there
deleted by creator
Opinion discarded.