Russian President Vladimir Putin promised Friday to 'immediately' order a ceasefire in Ukraine and begin negotiations if Kyiv started withdrawing troops from the four regions annexed by Moscow in 2022 and renounced plans to join NATO.
whatever russia says, they mean to do the opposite. they've been pulling this nonsense from the start and this is no different, and we know this because they are STILL THERE. if they wanted peace, THEY'D LEAVE. ukraine doesn't have a choice, they have nowhere to go. they can't pull out of the conflict because they are literally the one being invaded. there is no logic to this argument. it's like ordering cheese and wondering why you are served cheese. it's plain and dumb.
ukraine doesn’t have a choice, they have nowhere to go. they can’t pull out of the conflict because they are literally the one being invaded
You are right in that they have nowhere to go but it's because NATO won't let them accept peace but will force them to keep fighting until that last working class Ukrainian is dead. Russia is literally offering them a way out of more bloodshed right now, literally the topic of this post. They also could have avoided all of this by simply honoring the Minsk Agreements, but it was Ukraine breaking those agreements (including by shelling their own people in the east) that led to Russia "invading" by entering a conflict that had already been initiated by Ukraine trying to ethnically cleanse the east. It's funny you start by saying that Russia is untrustworthy, but Ukraine and NATO are the ones who very explicitly and admittedly broke their agreements.
whatever russia says, they mean to do the opposite
This is silly. Do you think Russian politicians are always just having fun playing this word game or something?
they've been pulling this nonsense from the start and this is no different, and we know this because they are STILL THERE. if they wanted peace, THEY'D LEAVE.
That doesn't make any sense. Their occupation is leverage. Giving up leverage always puts you in a worse negotiating position. The original causes of the invasion are also unresolved. What you are essentially suggesting is that Russia capitulate for the third time re: Ukraine and hope for a different outcome. The reason they invaded in the first place is that nobody in leadership, rationally, thinks they should fall for that again.
The outcome you would like to see is likely impossible. So what possible outcome do you want?
ukraine doesn't have a choice, they have nowhere to go. they can't pull out of the conflict because they are literally the one being invaded. there is no logic to this argument. it's like ordering cheese and wondering why you are served cheese. it's plain and dumb.
I think this might just be a misunderstanding. Of course Ukraine can't un-invade itself. And I agree that Ukraine doesn't have much choice, but I think so in a different way. They don't have much choice because they are not really a sovereign county. Their terms are heavily influenced by Western powers. The original attempts at a peace deal we blown up by Westwen leaders. This is unfortunate for the people of Ukraine, as they don't deserve to die just so that Western countries can try to stick it to Russia.
I think the best outcome is to achieve a peace deal as quickly as possible.
Isn't it interesting that the official US gov line on Gaza, a sealed off prison zone currently experiencing a second Holocaust that the zionist entity has no intention of stopping, is that "Hamas could end this any time"
But the nazi coup government of Ukraine, which doesn't even have public support and which has rejected every peace offering for years and have broken multiple treaties because they just couldn't stop slaughtering their own people in the east...they are the smol beans with nowhere to go.
You have internalized a perfectly backwards propagandistic framing of the situation: It is the Kyiv regime that can end this tomorrow by simply accepting that the people of the Donbas region do not want to be ruled by them. Russia has no interest in western Ukraine, no interest in ruling a bunch of people who hate them, they want a buffer zone so they don't have a warmongering authoritarian power's nukes on their border. I mean shit, we've been bombing their nuclear detection radar stations lately. If that's not the action of a deranged empire playing with the lives of the entire world, nothing is. Can you fucking imagine what the reaction would be if they were doing that to us? We would have scoured the planet of life by now.
The Ukrainian state forces it's people to fight and does not allow them to leave. It has a choice and that choice is to listen to it's people and accept peace.
If you think they should fight despite the fact that they do not wish to, then go volunteer yourself. Otherwise let the people decide for themselves.
Also your suggestion that they should leave is funny. I mean yeah if we're in Fantasyland sure, they should leave. I also think Putin should give everyone a pony. Sadly we live in a world where Putin hasn't given me a pony, a world were parties doesn't give up leverage before a negotiation.
You guys keep talking about Russians being untrustworthy, but it was Ukraine that broke treaties https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements
whatever russia says, they mean to do the opposite. they've been pulling this nonsense from the start and this is no different, and we know this because they are STILL THERE. if they wanted peace, THEY'D LEAVE. ukraine doesn't have a choice, they have nowhere to go. they can't pull out of the conflict because they are literally the one being invaded. there is no logic to this argument. it's like ordering cheese and wondering why you are served cheese. it's plain and dumb.
You are right in that they have nowhere to go but it's because NATO won't let them accept peace but will force them to keep fighting until that last working class Ukrainian is dead. Russia is literally offering them a way out of more bloodshed right now, literally the topic of this post. They also could have avoided all of this by simply honoring the Minsk Agreements, but it was Ukraine breaking those agreements (including by shelling their own people in the east) that led to Russia "invading" by entering a conflict that had already been initiated by Ukraine trying to ethnically cleanse the east. It's funny you start by saying that Russia is untrustworthy, but Ukraine and NATO are the ones who very explicitly and admittedly broke their agreements.
This is silly. Do you think Russian politicians are always just having fun playing this word game or something?
That doesn't make any sense. Their occupation is leverage. Giving up leverage always puts you in a worse negotiating position. The original causes of the invasion are also unresolved. What you are essentially suggesting is that Russia capitulate for the third time re: Ukraine and hope for a different outcome. The reason they invaded in the first place is that nobody in leadership, rationally, thinks they should fall for that again.
The outcome you would like to see is likely impossible. So what possible outcome do you want?
I think this might just be a misunderstanding. Of course Ukraine can't un-invade itself. And I agree that Ukraine doesn't have much choice, but I think so in a different way. They don't have much choice because they are not really a sovereign county. Their terms are heavily influenced by Western powers. The original attempts at a peace deal we blown up by Westwen leaders. This is unfortunate for the people of Ukraine, as they don't deserve to die just so that Western countries can try to stick it to Russia.
I think the best outcome is to achieve a peace deal as quickly as possible.
Isn't it interesting that the official US gov line on Gaza, a sealed off prison zone currently experiencing a second Holocaust that the zionist entity has no intention of stopping, is that "Hamas could end this any time"
But the nazi coup government of Ukraine, which doesn't even have public support and which has rejected every peace offering for years and have broken multiple treaties because they just couldn't stop slaughtering their own people in the east...they are the smol beans with nowhere to go.
You have internalized a perfectly backwards propagandistic framing of the situation: It is the Kyiv regime that can end this tomorrow by simply accepting that the people of the Donbas region do not want to be ruled by them. Russia has no interest in western Ukraine, no interest in ruling a bunch of people who hate them, they want a buffer zone so they don't have a warmongering authoritarian power's nukes on their border
. I mean shit, we've been bombing their nuclear detection radar stations lately. If that's not the action of a deranged empire playing with the lives of the entire world, nothing is. Can you fucking imagine what the reaction would be if they were doing that to us? We would have scoured the planet of life by now.
The Ukrainian state forces it's people to fight and does not allow them to leave. It has a choice and that choice is to listen to it's people and accept peace.
If you think they should fight despite the fact that they do not wish to, then go volunteer yourself. Otherwise let the people decide for themselves.
Also your suggestion that they should leave is funny. I mean yeah if we're in Fantasyland sure, they should leave. I also think Putin should give everyone a pony. Sadly we live in a world where Putin hasn't given me a pony, a world were parties doesn't give up leverage before a negotiation.
You guys keep talking about Russians being untrustworthy, but it was Ukraine that broke treaties https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements