It's kind of depressing that lgbt spaces here are empty because there's been no attempts to reach out/ reconcile with the existing trans community in chapo or any of their concerns, but there's a big ol post on main weaponizing lgbt identity against china which actually recently took a great stride in providing legal protection for trans comrades seeking medical transition. And with a prominent post in this very community being a cis person questioning the need of affirming pronouns for comrades across the gender spectrum. It's more than ok to pose these questions but it raises the issue of what the priority is in affirmatively making sure there is a space here in chapo for our queer comrades to have a home, vs being a home for cis comrades to affirm their own perceived tolerance.
First of all fuck off. That’s my post. I’m trans and bi. I am not “weaponizing” my own identity to attack China, that’s complete fucking bullshit. It’s a legitimate question in regards to where my rights would stand in such a country.
yeah I agree saying you're weaponizing your identity is fucked up on OPs part
Yeah like I can’t ask why some of my rights wouldn’t be recognized without it supposedly being weaponization, that’s bizarre. The implication here is that any question about any flaws in the allocation human rights in China is a direct attack- that says a lot.
I guess I’m just supposed to shut up and keep my mouth closed and accept it and never ask any questions about our supposedly best example of communism standing today, and never criticize anything from my own expert and perspective.
Like maybe some places that are a tankie wet dream for cis straight dudes may not be a bastion of paradise for everyone else... just a thought
Isn't that what you're asking from me when you attack me for providing input?
I’m asking you to not describe my post as weaponizing my identity and use it as a base to explain why trans people are not participating in the lemmy, for simply asking a legitimate question about China.
I'm simply describing the material relations as I understood them. I think it's more than fair for me to raise my perspective without having to be met with hostility
so shouldn't you give that same respect to TheDeed?
There's a clear difference between raising a concern, and coming into my thread and telling me to fuck off, yeah?
There's no concern to be raised though, and if there was to you then you could have found any way to say it that didn't specifically make it seem like TheDeed was attacking china or that they are just trying to make them look bad with western propaganda. Because they weren't. As a bisexual person myself this is kind of a concern with me and it was nice to see someone raise the question. Seeing the gross backlash to that isn't a good look for this community.
I mean I had a concern, and I raised it. Why is my perspective as a trans person not supposed to be considered in this?
I get your concern, and I can't really discuss your other concerns because I am cis but that post was just one person asking about gay marriage in china, a country vehemently defended by a significant portion of this community (I have no opinion on the matter). It was a fair question and there was no "weaponization" of any sort. It's ok to be concerned but blowing it out of proportion and treating it as a "weaponization" just isn't fair.
For what it's worth I was trying to address the structure of the site more than the indiviual post of TheDeed - were the only prominent lgbt post is one were criticism is being (materially) leveraged against china. Despite a lot of trans comrades having pro/neutral to china positions.
mate.. I get that, but give the community more than a week and it will grow. And also I think this community would be better if any perceived comment/post against china wasn't considered an attack on china. It's a very nuanced subject that a lot of people feel strongly about, and I think that at this point it's gotten a bit out of hand. The fact that a straight up question about why gay marriage isn't legal is taken as being a critical post leveraged against china causing many to become rude and disrespectful. If that truely is the general consensus of the chapo trans community then it will show over time. This site is just getting started and people know that. Nobody is going to come here and get the complete wrong idea because of TheDeed's post. It's going to be fine.
Am I not supposed to raise my own opinions on the matter, because that's all I've done?
all I'm saying is try not to make it like op was attacking china. The post wasn't an attack on china.
well that's why I'm stressing the material effect of the post and not its intention.
Identity gets weaponized all the time. How is it fucked up to raise the concern? They literally just did it now saying that they were trans to defend their point.
Asking about my rights or lack thereof is not a weaponization of my identity. Bottom line.
I'm talking on the material effect. Not your intent.
I'm sure Charlotte Clymer means well, too. I'm talking more on the material effect of your post. China literally just put in material protections for trans comrades seeking medical transition. It may be a legitimate question but the way it was posed is materially not much different from state propaganda. You know the U.S literally just granted marriage protections itself right?
It’s not state propaganda just because you don’t like criticism of China. It’s true: gay marriage is not legal in China.
I don’t care if the US just recently granted marriage protections; I am well aware. The focus here is not the USA because we already know the us is shitty. I’m asking because I’d like to know where my rights stand in a supposed modern bastion of communism.
I'm saying we should look at the whole picture of the material ways nations support their lgbt community. We have marriage equality in the west but like I don't have the same medical rights that they have in china as a trans person. But the way the question is framed makes it look like china is decades behind the u.s. in lgbt rights. In a time where there is mass propoganda being gear up towards china and AES.
My question was specifically on the issue of same sex marriage.
I understand that there is a massive state propaganda campaign going on against China right now to ramp up anti-China hatred because the US is salty about giving all its manufacturing to China and being threatened as a world power.
What we all need to understand is to separate fact from fiction. You’re right: there is a lot of unfounded bullshit going around about China. 99% percent of it is false. On the other hand, valid criticism about something that is true is not state propaganda. We shouldn’t just blanket ban all criticism of China from a left perspective and pretend everything is perfect.
Secondly I did not frame the question as China being decades behind the US... I wanted to know what was going on there and why it was illegal. I got a lot of good answers. The issue is it’s still illegal. Once again, I don’t care what the US has done. The US is not the only country to legalize same sex marriage.
And you’re right. You or I don’t have the same rights that would be afforded in China as trans people as we do in the US. That is a plus for China. Like I said in the post, I like most of the things China is doing. There’s also a lot I don’t like, identifying these issues are helpful as we build upon China’s example in establishing socialism in other places.
being valid doesn't mean something can't act as propaganda.
And I'm saying the responsible thing to do would be to provide that context in your question so people don't come to uninformed conclusions right of the bat.
same sex marriage is not the same thing as rights in medical transition. Are you serious? You can transition in Iran as well, that doesn’t mean it’s an lgbtq friendly place. Once again my question was explicitly about same sex marriage.
Is china as hostile to lgbt people as iran?
who tf said anything about iran? edit:my bad the editing confused me
TheDeed, literally in the comment I replied to
my bad the editing confused me