Yyyyyyyup. I was hoping to get away from reddit's hivemind of "Teslas are shit cars" but with Musk at the helm I don't think that's possible. Are they perfect? No. Are they awesome? IMO, yes.
Tesla's are shit cars though, and it has nothing to do with Musk. They have little to no driver feedback. The UX of their driver control systems are unresponsive and require the driver to take their eyes from the road. The idea of self-driving cars is a pipe dream that solves zero problems and simply aggravates existing individual transport problems.
Cosmetic build quality issues aside, they require practically zero maintenance (tires and windshield fluid) and there are less moving parts to break. So far they've proven to be very reliable.
Driver feedback is subjective and I find your claim straight-up obtuse in meaning. I quite enjoy windy roads and the smoothness of the EV drivetrain.
The UX of my Tesla is practically-perfectly responsive and most of what you want to do has either physical or voice controls.
Autopilot is good bordering great but still needs work. FSD is indeed a pipe dream with the current fleet.
Cosmetic build quality issues aside, they require practically zero maintenance (tires and windshield fluid) and there are less moving parts to break. So far they've proven to be very reliable.
This applies to all electric cars, this isn't exclusive to Tesla. And other electric cars don't have panel gaps.
Driver feedback is subjective and I find your claim straight-up obtuse in meaning. I quite enjoy windy roads and the smoothness of the EV drivetrain.
The Tesla drives like an appliance, particularly in comparison to what are often considered "driver's cars". Nothing wrong with it, but don't expect car enthusiasts to like it.
The UX of my Tesla is practically-perfectly responsive and most of what you want to do has either physical or voice controls.
most
voice controls
Physical buttons are superior, and have been for decades. Voice controls and touchscreens are decisions made on a budget basis, not a UX basis, because they are objectively worse. It's corner-cutting, not improvement.
Autopilot is good bordering great but still needs work. FSD is indeed a pipe dream with the current fleet.
Are you calling Musk a liar?!? FSD has been coming "next year" for like six years now!!!
love too have my self driving software turn off seconds before my car slams into a semi truck going 100mph, so I can be blamed posthumously for not having enough personal responsibility
Only the front doors have a manual release. So what will your child in the back seat do in the situation of a crash, and the battery is compromised causing a loss of power and threat of combustion?
So until today, you didn't know that you could potentially have locked someone in a ball of hot death because you assumed everything was fine because it looks cool
And your attitude about that horrifying revelation, is the equivalent of a snide shrug
Any car can potentially be a ball of hot death for the people inside. What do you expect me to do, sell the vehicle because some day I might hit all the points necessary for someone to be trapped in the back seat and at risk of harm or death? When I rarely ever have anyone back there? That's fucking ludicrous and a perfect fuck_cars take.
I don't think you understand the forces at play here. Gasoline burns at around 1000°c while lithium burns at over 2000°c. There is also the firefighting efforts about it (which is my job) which really suck. For a normal car or diesel fire with a water source we can fight the fire with foam, no problem. The NFPA doesn't even require us to carry Class D (metal fires) fire extinguishers on our trucks. We do have them on our trucks but they are designed for like, small appliances mostly, they don't have enough powder to actually manage a Tesla power system. We have to pull out whoever is inside then basically wait for the dump truck (literally a dump truck full of sand) to show up so we can glass most of the car in order to deny oxygen. Electric cars are a fucking grift, transport should be powered with overhead wires, maybe third rails.
Edit: also if you aren't car pooling why do you own a car? Why enter the "fuck cars" fray if you aren't anti-car?
Because I live in America and there's no way any kind of massive infrastructure bill that expands reliable public transit to every corner of the country gets anywhere in this day and age. Would love to be proven wrong.
my desire for fancy treats is going to make your life personally objectively more dangerous. Thats life
Literally yes. That's how it works sometimes.
But sure, let's all just go back to horses and donkeys. Wait, no... those were dangerous, too. Fuck.
I don't get why you're so dismissive of public transit being possible. Is it something with the ideological make up of the USA? I could give that until Miami is under water in about a decade. If its for physical limitations though then I couldn't give that, once again the USSR was primarily mass transit. If they could do it back then the USA could do it now.
Is it something with the ideological make up of the USA?
Very much so, yes.
I live in a state that has pretty dang good public transit (by USA standards) and even still, the county I live in is rural with no buses or trains within walking distance. I could bike, but there are no bike lanes or margins on the roads leading to the closest bus stop that I know. This is for the most populous state in the country while simultaneously being one of the smallest geographically.
If we as a society can accept that we need to allocate over an hour (and that's being generous) for the first leg a 20 mile round trip to make an appointment or whatever at a massive loss of convenience then, sure... maybe we can make it work. Right now? It's a pipe dream and getting angry at people who own a car to make their schedules work isn't doing your "side" any favors.
I will admit that I am part of your problem. I really like my car. I like the idea of having a tool that can quickly, conveniently, and comfortably give me the freedom to travel from place to place without having to deal with other people. That is a selfish stance, I admit. Until it becomes feasible to implement public transit at the scale needed to get rid of cars I am likely going to continue to feel this way.
You don't like, see if things work and stuff? Maybe I'm too used to having to deal with old beaters but checking if doors can be opened from the inside is a critical safety check. Its like checking to see if the seatbelts work. Do you ever drive people around?
That is kind of the funny thing about autos. Like most manufacturers are terrible in many ways. Environment, political, the way they treat people or how shitty their quality control is. Planned obsolescence. There is still a fake "supply demand" issue that they have literally concocted to jack prices through the roof. Literally price gouging asking 15k over MRSP because they pretend they have a supply issue lol.
All the US majors are in on this scam and it's sad we don't have a government worth a fuck to fight it..
Elon is just mouthy about it lol. I couldn't even tell you who the CEO of GMC is. They are awful as well tho.
The problem unique to car companies is that the Repubs are beholden to the car companies and the only unions big enough and worth a shit in the US is the UAW, and Democrats are beholden to anything they need.
So you literally can't do anything to regulate the industry without pissing off one or the other. The car companies will use any legislation raised against them to lay off union jobs.
r/cars and other car "enthusiast" subs have been pretty anti-Tesla for quite some time, because Teslas aren't really anything approaching a "driver's car". They go fast in a straight line but have terrible feedback and handling.
They are extremely mad that car people don't like Teslas, and they post angrily about it on Reddit every hour of every day. Fortunately, Tesla people aren't "car people" so there's really no real life friction other than Tesla dorks probably showing up to cars and coffee all over the nation and feeling personally offended when nobody gives half a shit about their commuter coffin.
If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd know the consumer reports report referenced in the article weighs cosmetic issues as heavily as mechanical ones. It's been talked about to death since it came out a while ago but yeah, nice yahoo link, bro.
I'm sorry, there's no positive here on the yoke thing. Literally anybody who isn't a 14 year old who has never driven a car before should understand a yoke is a shitty, stupid thing to replace a wheel with. That mistake didn't require putting the shit on the market and then going "oh wow I guess this much worse thing isn't better after all, huh". Like, seriously, the dumbest motherfuckers must have been involved in that decision from start to finish.
Then why did they discontinue it if it wasn't a stupid idea? Oh well.
I just want to go into the thing itself a little bit here... What vehicles do we see "yoke" style steering wheels on? Racing cars and karts. Why do we see yokes on those vehicles specifically? Extremely fast steering racks that will go lock-to-lock in a half or quarter turn, coupled with cockpits that either do not allow enough arm movement due to restraints or space to have more wheel movement. Are Teslas cramped inside with arm restraints because they're open-top racecars? Do they have racing racks that go lock to lock in a quarter turn? Are Teslas driven like a racecar, where both hands will always be on the wheel unless you're banging through gears? No.
It's a child's view of the world that spawned the idea of putting yokes in Teslas, because the child (Musk) saw racecars and was too ignorant to understand why they had yokes. Techbros and their consequences, etc.
Yeah; it’s very strange. The new online norm seems to be “don’t buy anything from a company if the primary person is a jerk.”
Meanwhile everyone online is buying stuff from jerks. They are just less vocal about it.
I REALLY don’t care to research every company I buy something from. Even if I know the primary person is a jerk, I still don’t care unless there is a near equal alternative.
The point here is that the main guy is like the biggest asshole, but the product itself is also ass while pretending not to be, likely fucking up the future “innovation” to be more fucking trash like this
Yyyyyyyup. I was hoping to get away from reddit's hivemind of "Teslas are shit cars" but with Musk at the helm I don't think that's possible. Are they perfect? No. Are they awesome? IMO, yes.
Tesla's are shit cars though, and it has nothing to do with Musk. They have little to no driver feedback. The UX of their driver control systems are unresponsive and require the driver to take their eyes from the road. The idea of self-driving cars is a pipe dream that solves zero problems and simply aggravates existing individual transport problems.
Counterpoints:
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Lol seriously? My passengers find the manual release by accident the first time they go to get out. It's exactly where you would expect it to be.
"Extra! Extra! Some people are idiots!"
Keep trying, bud.
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This applies to all electric cars, this isn't exclusive to Tesla. And other electric cars don't have panel gaps.
The Tesla drives like an appliance, particularly in comparison to what are often considered "driver's cars". Nothing wrong with it, but don't expect car enthusiasts to like it.
Physical buttons are superior, and have been for decades. Voice controls and touchscreens are decisions made on a budget basis, not a UX basis, because they are objectively worse. It's corner-cutting, not improvement.
Are you calling Musk a liar?!? FSD has been coming "next year" for like six years now!!!
Literally yes.
Dang you managed to be right on one thing, congrats
Did they fix the fact you can't open the door from the inside if the power is out without an instruction manual and fingernails?
love too have my self driving software turn off seconds before my car slams into a semi truck going 100mph, so I can be blamed posthumously for not having enough personal responsibility
The fuck are you talking about? There is a regular-sized door handle right there.
Only the front doors have a manual release. So what will your child in the back seat do in the situation of a crash, and the battery is compromised causing a loss of power and threat of combustion?
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_au/GUID-7A32EC01-A17E-42CC-A15B-2E0A39FD07AB.html
Oh wow, I did not notice that. Now THAT is a problem.
Wait aren't you the one who actually owns one of these lithium sand buckets?
Believe it or not I don't spend much time in the back seat.
So until today, you didn't know that you could potentially have locked someone in a ball of hot death because you assumed everything was fine because it looks cool
And your attitude about that horrifying revelation, is the equivalent of a snide shrug
Any car can potentially be a ball of hot death for the people inside. What do you expect me to do, sell the vehicle because some day I might hit all the points necessary for someone to be trapped in the back seat and at risk of harm or death? When I rarely ever have anyone back there? That's fucking ludicrous and a perfect fuck_cars take.
I don't think you understand the forces at play here. Gasoline burns at around 1000°c while lithium burns at over 2000°c. There is also the firefighting efforts about it (which is my job) which really suck. For a normal car or diesel fire with a water source we can fight the fire with foam, no problem. The NFPA doesn't even require us to carry Class D (metal fires) fire extinguishers on our trucks. We do have them on our trucks but they are designed for like, small appliances mostly, they don't have enough powder to actually manage a Tesla power system. We have to pull out whoever is inside then basically wait for the dump truck (literally a dump truck full of sand) to show up so we can glass most of the car in order to deny oxygen. Electric cars are a fucking grift, transport should be powered with overhead wires, maybe third rails.
Edit: also if you aren't car pooling why do you own a car? Why enter the "fuck cars" fray if you aren't anti-car?
I am well aware of the issues with EV battery fires. It will require changes to how you do your job and the equipment used. That's life.
We're not getting public transit everywhere in this country so we're going to have to adapt.
Why can't you have public transit everywhere though? The soviet union did it and they are way larger with way more disparate populations than the USA.
Because I live in America and there's no way any kind of massive infrastructure bill that expands reliable public transit to every corner of the country gets anywhere in this day and age. Would love to be proven wrong.
Literally yes. That's how it works sometimes.
But sure, let's all just go back to horses and donkeys. Wait, no... those were dangerous, too. Fuck.
I don't get why you're so dismissive of public transit being possible. Is it something with the ideological make up of the USA? I could give that until Miami is under water in about a decade. If its for physical limitations though then I couldn't give that, once again the USSR was primarily mass transit. If they could do it back then the USA could do it now.
Very much so, yes.
I live in a state that has pretty dang good public transit (by USA standards) and even still, the county I live in is rural with no buses or trains within walking distance. I could bike, but there are no bike lanes or margins on the roads leading to the closest bus stop that I know. This is for the most populous state in the country while simultaneously being one of the smallest geographically.
If we as a society can accept that we need to allocate over an hour (and that's being generous) for the first leg a 20 mile round trip to make an appointment or whatever at a massive loss of convenience then, sure... maybe we can make it work. Right now? It's a pipe dream and getting angry at people who own a car to make their schedules work isn't doing your "side" any favors.
I will admit that I am part of your problem. I really like my car. I like the idea of having a tool that can quickly, conveniently, and comfortably give me the freedom to travel from place to place without having to deal with other people. That is a selfish stance, I admit. Until it becomes feasible to implement public transit at the scale needed to get rid of cars I am likely going to continue to feel this way.
You don't like, see if things work and stuff? Maybe I'm too used to having to deal with old beaters but checking if doors can be opened from the inside is a critical safety check. Its like checking to see if the seatbelts work. Do you ever drive people around?
I think it’s a cool feature tbh
That is kind of the funny thing about autos. Like most manufacturers are terrible in many ways. Environment, political, the way they treat people or how shitty their quality control is. Planned obsolescence. There is still a fake "supply demand" issue that they have literally concocted to jack prices through the roof. Literally price gouging asking 15k over MRSP because they pretend they have a supply issue lol.
All the US majors are in on this scam and it's sad we don't have a government worth a fuck to fight it..
Elon is just mouthy about it lol. I couldn't even tell you who the CEO of GMC is. They are awful as well tho.
The problem unique to car companies is that the Repubs are beholden to the car companies and the only unions big enough and worth a shit in the US is the UAW, and Democrats are beholden to anything they need.
So you literally can't do anything to regulate the industry without pissing off one or the other. The car companies will use any legislation raised against them to lay off union jobs.
Is the UAW still a powerful union? Hasn’t it been mostly dismantled and destroyed by union busting and automation?
Sure. Also Right-to-work legislation. Red States race to the bottom with worker protections.
Still the most powerful, tho.
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r/cars and other car "enthusiast" subs have been pretty anti-Tesla for quite some time, because Teslas aren't really anything approaching a "driver's car". They go fast in a straight line but have terrible feedback and handling.
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They are extremely mad that car people don't like Teslas, and they post angrily about it on Reddit every hour of every day. Fortunately, Tesla people aren't "car people" so there's really no real life friction other than Tesla dorks probably showing up to cars and coffee all over the nation and feeling personally offended when nobody gives half a shit about their commuter coffin.
Oh, no!
Anyways...
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If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd know the consumer reports report referenced in the article weighs cosmetic issues as heavily as mechanical ones. It's been talked about to death since it came out a while ago but yeah, nice yahoo link, bro.
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I want a pirate ship wheel.
What a silly thing to complain about. TWO touches to get total mileage. Boo-fucking-hoo.
Yoke is optional becaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuse people didn't want it. They listened to their customers. Wow, what a terrible move.
Real c/fuck_cars take there.
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I'm sorry, there's no positive here on the yoke thing. Literally anybody who isn't a 14 year old who has never driven a car before should understand a yoke is a shitty, stupid thing to replace a wheel with. That mistake didn't require putting the shit on the market and then going "oh wow I guess this much worse thing isn't better after all, huh". Like, seriously, the dumbest motherfuckers must have been involved in that decision from start to finish.
I guess we'll just ignore the tons of positive feedback regarding the yoke out there. Oh well.
Then why did they discontinue it if it wasn't a stupid idea? Oh well.
I just want to go into the thing itself a little bit here... What vehicles do we see "yoke" style steering wheels on? Racing cars and karts. Why do we see yokes on those vehicles specifically? Extremely fast steering racks that will go lock-to-lock in a half or quarter turn, coupled with cockpits that either do not allow enough arm movement due to restraints or space to have more wheel movement. Are Teslas cramped inside with arm restraints because they're open-top racecars? Do they have racing racks that go lock to lock in a quarter turn? Are Teslas driven like a racecar, where both hands will always be on the wheel unless you're banging through gears? No.
It's a child's view of the world that spawned the idea of putting yokes in Teslas, because the child (Musk) saw racecars and was too ignorant to understand why they had yokes. Techbros and their consequences, etc.
"But I think its cool, so therefore you are incorrect!"
Did you think they were agreeing with you bazinga boy? Lmao
Yeah; it’s very strange. The new online norm seems to be “don’t buy anything from a company if the primary person is a jerk.”
Meanwhile everyone online is buying stuff from jerks. They are just less vocal about it.
I REALLY don’t care to research every company I buy something from. Even if I know the primary person is a jerk, I still don’t care unless there is a near equal alternative.
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The point here is that the main guy is like the biggest asshole, but the product itself is also ass while pretending not to be, likely fucking up the future “innovation” to be more fucking trash like this