Expected because during 1948 in the Israeli independence war (also known as Nakba for the Palestinians), 10000 Palestinian civilians died in multiple instances including several war crimes.
Comparatively to other wars where civilian population was involved, it sounds about right.
Doesn't mean that every war will end up in 10k, it just makes sense due to a comparison. Used here not as an argument in and of itself, but as a ruler to measure expectations.
And again, your well founded accusations of America as being worse than Russia doesn't make Russia free of blame. If you killed 50 people, does that mean that if I kill you, I'm a hero that showed restraint? No. I'm a criminal. I'm not a serial murderer, but I am a murderer nonetheless. Even a police officer that were to kill you would be under an investigation to establish that he had no choice, and if proven that he could've brought you to justice alive, he would face prison (at least, if the justice system works).
Also, I am not American. I am not saying America is ok. Right now, America is getting rich off of death of Russians and Ukrainians the same way they've been doing since 1910 - as the world's largest arms dealer. Their capitalist hunger fuels a military industrial complex that spreads war, chaos and death. America is also hypocritical enough to be fighting a proxy war with Russia through the Ukraine in retaliation of the Russian invasion, under the guise of "We supply weapons". Bullshit they do more than supply weapons and aid. They train Ukrainian soliders and send free mercenaries in.
Why are you say anything about justification now? I was rebuking your argument that Russians committed mass murder in Ukraine, which they didn't and you agreed saying the numbers were expected, but you suddenly moved into some kind of moral argument for some reason.
Now i don't agree with the expectations, because you still didn't said who expected it and from reading of nearly all liberal articles about those numbers they not only expect much more but are even making them up contrary to the apparently most trustworthy assessments.
Nakba is comparable in terms of numbers of victims and lenght of war but the military forces were much lower than the ones in Ukraine and intensity of the war was also much lower - just compare the ratio of military to civilian losses.
Tl;Dr - My original argument that Russia is conducting mass murder (genocide) is false, the facts refute it. War crimes are in question. Your arguments are emotional and that triggered my antagonistic responses.
Thank you and the rest of the participants in this thread, you've made me see this war in a new light.
Expected because during 1948 in the Israeli independence war (also known as Nakba for the Palestinians), 10000 Palestinian civilians died in multiple instances including several war crimes. Comparatively to other wars where civilian population was involved, it sounds about right. Doesn't mean that every war will end up in 10k, it just makes sense due to a comparison. Used here not as an argument in and of itself, but as a ruler to measure expectations.
And again, your well founded accusations of America as being worse than Russia doesn't make Russia free of blame. If you killed 50 people, does that mean that if I kill you, I'm a hero that showed restraint? No. I'm a criminal. I'm not a serial murderer, but I am a murderer nonetheless. Even a police officer that were to kill you would be under an investigation to establish that he had no choice, and if proven that he could've brought you to justice alive, he would face prison (at least, if the justice system works).
Also, I am not American. I am not saying America is ok. Right now, America is getting rich off of death of Russians and Ukrainians the same way they've been doing since 1910 - as the world's largest arms dealer. Their capitalist hunger fuels a military industrial complex that spreads war, chaos and death. America is also hypocritical enough to be fighting a proxy war with Russia through the Ukraine in retaliation of the Russian invasion, under the guise of "We supply weapons". Bullshit they do more than supply weapons and aid. They train Ukrainian soliders and send free mercenaries in.
Why are you say anything about justification now? I was rebuking your argument that Russians committed mass murder in Ukraine, which they didn't and you agreed saying the numbers were expected, but you suddenly moved into some kind of moral argument for some reason.
Now i don't agree with the expectations, because you still didn't said who expected it and from reading of nearly all liberal articles about those numbers they not only expect much more but are even making them up contrary to the apparently most trustworthy assessments.
Nakba is comparable in terms of numbers of victims and lenght of war but the military forces were much lower than the ones in Ukraine and intensity of the war was also much lower - just compare the ratio of military to civilian losses.
Tl;Dr - My original argument that Russia is conducting mass murder (genocide) is false, the facts refute it. War crimes are in question. Your arguments are emotional and that triggered my antagonistic responses.
Thank you and the rest of the participants in this thread, you've made me see this war in a new light.
Fair enough, i guess my argument was emotional because i'm drowning in the absolutely inane prowar propaganda in polish and enlish media every day.
Whatever... You're too busy being right to listen. Dasvidania chelovek, enjoy life.