Thanks for the summary work. I haven't listened and don't really have time. Hopefully I can soon. But in the meantime, thanks.
I want to take Chomsky's side but for a reason different than what he was saying. Call it a theory of two revolutions.
Like the Russians, who overthrew the Tzar with a bouguois government, then overthrew that for the workers, I think our best path forward is a landslide win for the Democrats to completely drive the Republicans out of power. Then with the Democrats in control, we challenge them from the left. If the Democrats win the Senate and White House, they COULD pack the courts, get rid of whatever filibuster remains, implement universal healthcare, etc etc. But they won't. They will try and cannibalize the Republican party voter base so they can have their support and win again in 2022. If they do that, two things will be in our favor that are not in our favor right now:
The left won't have the pressure to vote centrist for fear of the GOP winning, as the GOP will be weak.
The right won't have much energy to challenge the Democrats, as many will be absorbed into it.
In that situation, a third party, from the left would be in a good position, much better than now, or than if the Democrats squeak out a minor victory right now.
tl;dr, I fully support voting Democrat in all the elections this cycle, because it would break the cycle we're in. The Democrats need a chance to succeed before a mass movement will grow from the left against them. Democrats all think Obama had his hands tied by the Republicans, so that doesn't count.
Then with the Democrats in control, we challenge them from the left.
How? No one ever can say how they're going to do this, they just want to put it off till a later date. If we're not doing it now, why are we waiting? What more can we do than nightly protests and tearing down colonizer statues and occasionally lighting up a police station? What is that going to give us under Biden v Trump? Biden is already pro shooting "violent" protesters and hadn't budged an inch on defending the police after months of protests. If this isn't pushing him left, why would it be different when he is in office?
He and every other elected dem who can easily win will do nothing. Now and in the future. They have no incentive. And Biden is just as likely as Obama was during occupy and Ferguson to pull out the tanks on protestors.
So HOW exactly are we going to push the democrats to the left if they're not willing to concede anything when he needs us most? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean here, you mentioned voting in 2022 but that is all you mentioned.
There is an argument that the Democrats need an unmitigated opportunity to fail in order for people to abandon them. In this scenario, the Democrats would sweep the House, Senate, and Oval Office, fail to manage the unmitigated disaster of late stage covid capitalism, and present ripe conditions for agitation. I'm not convinced we have the leisure to wait around for this to happen though, or if will even matter considering the media's ability to whitewash figures like Bush and Obama.
In reality, Obama was the failure. The Democrats had the trifecta and did absolutely nothing aside from bail out their institutional finance friends and further entrench the health insurance industry, and yet we look back on Obama as a saint. Joe Lieberman is the only person who got crucified and the power structure was left completely unscathed. I see no reason why things would work out differently this time. In all likelihood, the Democrats will conveniently fall one vote short of doing anything consequential, blame some old fucks who have reached a dead end in their political careers like Manchin as a convenient scapegoat, and continue to feign as freedom fighters while doing nothing. And the suckers will buy it just how they bought it in 2008-2010.
There is an argument that the Democrats need an unmitigated opportunity to fail in order for people to abandon them.
Obama was the failure. The Democrats had the trifecta and did absolutely nothing
This is why I'm not persuaded by the "put Democrats in so people will abandon them when they fail" argument. Didn't we try that in 2008 and it didn't work? You can make a case that it's different this time, but I don't know how strong it is.
The only sensible pro-Biden argument I can't get away from is that (1) the left is not prepared for fascist accelerationism, and (2) Biden would slow that process and give us additional time to organize.
Yes, but abandon them in which direction. If the Dems fail to contain the current crisis, which they will, are the American people more likely to tack to Socialism or to a competent version of Mike Pence?
And that's before we consider the international perspective, which is Trump has been the least murdery leader of the last 100 years, despite himself.
Or worse still a neo-fascist candidate that can outflank the establishment on the left by offering the economic securities of social democracy only to a white supremacist / 'true American' base.
The Democrats had the trifecta and did absolutely nothing
I didn't get that. I remember them being filibustered by McConnell every step of the way. They just had a auto filibuster, so if the Democrats couldn't muster 60 votes to start something, they couldn't even bring something to the floor. The GOP somehow blocked Al Franken from taking office until late July of 2009, by doing recounts and it was a special election. And Kennedy died in August. There were 3 weeks, during the summer vacation, when the Democrats had the filibuster-proof majority.
Thanks for the summary work. I haven't listened and don't really have time. Hopefully I can soon. But in the meantime, thanks.
I want to take Chomsky's side but for a reason different than what he was saying. Call it a theory of two revolutions.
Like the Russians, who overthrew the Tzar with a bouguois government, then overthrew that for the workers, I think our best path forward is a landslide win for the Democrats to completely drive the Republicans out of power. Then with the Democrats in control, we challenge them from the left. If the Democrats win the Senate and White House, they COULD pack the courts, get rid of whatever filibuster remains, implement universal healthcare, etc etc. But they won't. They will try and cannibalize the Republican party voter base so they can have their support and win again in 2022. If they do that, two things will be in our favor that are not in our favor right now:
In that situation, a third party, from the left would be in a good position, much better than now, or than if the Democrats squeak out a minor victory right now.
tl;dr, I fully support voting Democrat in all the elections this cycle, because it would break the cycle we're in. The Democrats need a chance to succeed before a mass movement will grow from the left against them. Democrats all think Obama had his hands tied by the Republicans, so that doesn't count.
How? No one ever can say how they're going to do this, they just want to put it off till a later date. If we're not doing it now, why are we waiting? What more can we do than nightly protests and tearing down colonizer statues and occasionally lighting up a police station? What is that going to give us under Biden v Trump? Biden is already pro shooting "violent" protesters and hadn't budged an inch on defending the police after months of protests. If this isn't pushing him left, why would it be different when he is in office?
He and every other elected dem who can easily win will do nothing. Now and in the future. They have no incentive. And Biden is just as likely as Obama was during occupy and Ferguson to pull out the tanks on protestors.
So HOW exactly are we going to push the democrats to the left if they're not willing to concede anything when he needs us most? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean here, you mentioned voting in 2022 but that is all you mentioned.
There is an argument that the Democrats need an unmitigated opportunity to fail in order for people to abandon them. In this scenario, the Democrats would sweep the House, Senate, and Oval Office, fail to manage the unmitigated disaster of late stage covid capitalism, and present ripe conditions for agitation. I'm not convinced we have the leisure to wait around for this to happen though, or if will even matter considering the media's ability to whitewash figures like Bush and Obama.
In reality, Obama was the failure. The Democrats had the trifecta and did absolutely nothing aside from bail out their institutional finance friends and further entrench the health insurance industry, and yet we look back on Obama as a saint. Joe Lieberman is the only person who got crucified and the power structure was left completely unscathed. I see no reason why things would work out differently this time. In all likelihood, the Democrats will conveniently fall one vote short of doing anything consequential, blame some old fucks who have reached a dead end in their political careers like Manchin as a convenient scapegoat, and continue to feign as freedom fighters while doing nothing. And the suckers will buy it just how they bought it in 2008-2010.
This is why I'm not persuaded by the "put Democrats in so people will abandon them when they fail" argument. Didn't we try that in 2008 and it didn't work? You can make a case that it's different this time, but I don't know how strong it is.
The only sensible pro-Biden argument I can't get away from is that (1) the left is not prepared for fascist accelerationism, and (2) Biden would slow that process and give us additional time to organize.
Yes, but abandon them in which direction. If the Dems fail to contain the current crisis, which they will, are the American people more likely to tack to Socialism or to a competent version of Mike Pence?
And that's before we consider the international perspective, which is Trump has been the least murdery leader of the last 100 years, despite himself.
Or worse still a neo-fascist candidate that can outflank the establishment on the left by offering the economic securities of social democracy only to a white supremacist / 'true American' base.
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