I'm guessing it's like Christianity where there are leftist Christians who follow Jesus' more progressive messages such as giving to the less fortunate and healing the sick, and then there are the scary Christian evangelicals that want A Handmaids Tale and conversion therapy. Logically, Islam probably isn't a monolith in a similar way other religions aren't.
However, I have never heard about what those of the Islamic faith actually believe outside of the hysterical post 9/11 Islamophobia I've been indoctrinated with as a child.
I want to know what the truth is and hear the other sides story. To me it's obvious that Islamophobia is wrong, however when Islamophobes make wild claims about it, I can't really refute them confidently because I'm simply ignorant of the facts. Please educate my dumb, white ass.
Religion is always trash. No way around that and even as open mind leftists or wannabe leftists we have to recognize that. However the worst elements of religion tend to moderate with development something the Muslim world has been denied by the great Satan
L
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it haunts the whole website!
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I hate people like this, so, so much.
Feel free to square that circle and explain how religion and Marxism are able to go hand in hand. Marxism is a material analysis of the world. Religion is not and quite the opposite.
actually not interested in a debate reddit atheist, just wanted to let you know your take sucks!
What debate lol
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Religion is literally used to maintain dominance over people and prevent condition from improving
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"Hah, fine, I'll read Marx"
"
and that's why i left the Left"
Ok I just thought about it some more, although I somewhat agree with your sentiment and think you have good intentions, I think it is quite unfair to say "religion is always trash" and vehemently disagree with that belief. We have users here who are Palestinian muslims currently facing a genocide *in no small part because of their faith, which gives people the will to continue in the face of unspeakable horrors, is definetely not "trash". We in the west have to remember that just because our own governments are insane genocidal christian/jewish extremists doesn't mean we can solipsisticly apply this judgement to everyone else, including the people who they are genociding. We should always remember to think of others and be considerate.
don't erase palestinian jews, christians, atheists, and whatever else. there's a fuckload of islamophobia in the zionist rhetoric but muslims are not the sole victims of this genocide and they can't get out of the genocide by changing religion.
this is parallel to nazi extermination of ethnic groups besides jews, whatever difference of proportion
oh yes absolutely I shouldve specified so it doesn't become a normative statement since I was mostly talking within the context of this thread and the comment, the pissraelis did make sure to ethnically cleanse and physically destroy some of the oldest Palestinian Jewish neighborhoods when they first settled
Fair enough. Trash isn't the best word to use when discussing a sensitive topic.
Agreed, also wouldn't say its a discrete abstract "sensitive topic", its moreso an acknowledgement of the sheer gravity of the current ongoing situation, the reality of the horrific genocide that our governments are bankrolling right at this very moment, the mass death and suffering that the west has failed to prevent. Even as we speak there are innocent people murdered and tortured by the enemy, whose loved ones may be posting here as well. We in the west need to discard condescending attitudes, come down from the ivory tower and return to reality so we can stop this genocide.
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The OG Zionists were atheist Jews who opportunistically used a religious text revealed by a God they don't even believe in to claim Palestine as their own. If anything, it was the more religiously observant Jews who resisted Zionism because they saw the bunk pushed by those particular atheist Jews as the bunk that it was. And while secular Bundism is no more, anti-Zionist Hasidic communities still exist.
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And? So many of the current Israeli are religious fundamentalists. Jews are an ethno religious group and making Israel a country for Jews (literally their law) is both an ethno nationalist and religio nationalist project.
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Your words not mine
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Is religion a progressive force or not? I'm just here to point out it's not. Dressing up my stance with your imagined motivations is a you problem. And I actually think that religion and capitalism are so tied up together at this point that a post capitalist world will have to come hand in hand with a post religious world.
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The new atheists are just a bunch of racists and that piece of shit Dawkins literally calls himself a cultural Christian.
Also in case it isn't clear the religion most tied in with capitalism is Christianity and the religion that has caused by far the most damage and will continue to do so in the future is Christianity.
I think all this Islamophobic propaganda which is at its core an racist project and not an anti religion project has made people reluctant to see or unaware of the harm other religions cause.
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Dawkins is obviously an atheist but a racist and the religious umbrella of Christian fundamentalism is a comfortable habitat for him.
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And or a racist. I'm saying he is a racist and an atheist. The two are independent. But his racism finds a good home in Christian fundamentalism as it would.
I'm just trying to clarify what I meant and Ill be honest I have no idea what you're saying or arguing at this point.
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You're being ridiculous. I dont like fedoras or care what sam Harris or his racist pos group of new atheists say. Pointing out that people dying under capitalism find hope in religion doesn't make religion a progressive force. And me pointing out that religion can never be a progressive force is not me condescendingly looking down on these people. In fact I am more aware of the tragedy than you are in that their only hope (as they are genocided in real time on everyones social media feeds) is a complete dead end. And Islam has hurt Muslims far more than anyone else (although it's clear Christianity is the far more damaging religion) and I can recognize that because guese what I grew up Muslim.
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China is not remotely anti-religion in practice.
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Not American. Not white. I really don't know what image you've cooked up in your head
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Gotcha. Anyway I'm probably getting banned so feel free to keep this going
Actually you know what, in the spirit of making this site a better place to use for everyone and since you didn't really say anything bad I am sorry for aggressively responding to your original post and wrongly insulting your intelligence, very bad behaviour on my part. Next time it would have been better for me to start a productive discussion about the relationship between religious thought and the superstructure of class society. Unironically hope you have a good day.
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