Ignore the experts who were saying for years that viral spillover was inevitable if we continue deforestation. It must be the scheming orientals.
No one disputes that this could be a transcendence issue, but China's continuous blocking any efforts that are not controlled by them makes any investigation suspect. The Chinese should have already hosted an investigation. This will have been presented to the initial who investigation. Any further investigations will have zero credibility.
Any attempt to force China to accept inspectors from the Euro-centric world already has zero credibility given the number of times the Euro-centric world has used this exact ruse as a pretext for espionage and war propaganda
There are not supposed to be military establishments in the area. There were European scientist in the Wuhan facility before covid was active. This adds to the conspiracy theories. It may very well be that the origins came from the caves, but China does not help anyone in dissuading the narrative.
China is under no obligation to dissuade the Euro-centric world from a conspiracy theory narrative, and it has been moving itself into that posture for some time now. The US and Europe have been rattling sabres for years now, and that's well after a full century of humiliating China. If the West wants China to respond to their spurious conspiracy claims, they're going to have make a lot more effort to show good faith. As it stands now, if I were Chinese, I wouldn't trust the West within 100 miles of China.
China is under no obligation to dissuade the Euro-centric world from a conspiracy theory narrative
We have just had a world pandemic. Common sense states that we should be looking into that.
after a full century of humiliating China.
Humiliating China in what way?
Humiliating China in what way?
If this is a good faith question, I highly recommend looking into modern Chinese history, starting with the 1800s. Europe brought China to its knees. Massive EuroAmerican fortunes were amassed through getting 40% of Chinese people addicted to opium, Forbes among them. The Chinese attempt to protect their people by outlawing opium was met with orientalism by the merchants who convinced the British navy to attack China and force it to allow the drug trade. The Opium Wars is how Britain ended up occupying Hong Kong and how Europeans were immune to Chinese law in all the major port cities.
When the PLA joined with the KMT to fight off the Japanese, the KMT then turned on the PLA and massacred as many as they could. The PLA eventually won the hearts and minds of the Chinese people and through a people's war and through conversion of thousands of KMT soldiers to the PLA defeated the KMT who ran away to Taiwan. The British then stepped in and prevented the PLA from continuing to pursue the KMT because the British wanted the KMT to be their puppet regime. And that's how Taiwan got into the mess it's in.
The West spent a century dominating China, eventually even imposing tarrifs on behalf of China on goods that passsed through China, but all the tarrifs were collected by the Europeans! China finally stood up in 1949, but it has not finished pushing European influence out of its region. So the idea that the WHO should be trusted to be impartial when literally everything the West has done is weaponized against its enemies is laughable.
I am not going to listen to arguments based on events from 200 years ago. My family were being starved in Ireland back then.
China was a closed nation for a very long time. Any developments in China are down to China themselves. Do you even know the term of the Cold War?
There were no friendly arrangements between the west and China until very recent. The hand of friendship has been extended due to the collapse of Russia and the west recognising the futility of being aggressive for the sake of being aggressive. China also opened it borders, something unthinkable before the USSR collapsed. Since the cooling of relations between the west and China, China has abused that hand of friendship in many areas. Is it any wonder that hostilities are building up again?
I am not going to listen to arguments based on events from 200 years ago.
Enjoy remaining incredibly stupid and easily manipulated for the rest of your life.
Why thank you very much. Please enjoy the next conversation you have where you present many other arguments with absolutely no foundation or basis.
Please enjoy the next conversation you have where you present many other arguments with absolutely no foundation or basis.
Says the sinophobic weeb that accuses others of being "bots" because you don't agree with them.
I didn't have to. I'm only talking about you in particular being a racist piece of shit accusing other people of being bots, you silly weeb.
You're diluting your own accusations of calling people bots by arguing with the people you are claiming are bots.
You're presenting yourself as either a liar or as someone that has a gross misunderstanding of the generally accepted definition of "bot."
In either case, you've utterly failed to convince anyone of your sinophobic bullshit that didn't already buy into it, and are just begging for more attention.
Maybe later, you sad bigoted weeb.
Even a cheap bot
Surely no one could disagree with you! It must be a bot built by the dastardly chinese!
spoiler
You're racist
with absolutely no foundation or basis.
Except for the historical facts which they presented you with, and the reason for giving that context? Each of their claims is basic history.
Do you not believe that what happened in our past shapes our present? Do you just think everything happens disconnected from the other?
So far you are the one who have yet to provide any basis for your claims. The other user gave a succint argument as to why China has reason to distrust western institutions and your response has been "nuh uh".
Do better.Lol my only purpose now is to wind you up.
You're gonna have to step up your game then. So far you're just a very basic run-of-the-mill chud
This stopped being a feasible conversation a long time ago when you tried associating the racist card as a valid argument.
Dude, you're being racist, it's been explained to you how, you choose to keep being racist.
"Oh now you're playing the racist card." There's a real easy way to stop getting that card played - Stop being racistIt is very obvious you are a bot.
I thought you wanted to wind me up? If I'm an unthinking machine, how are you going to do that?
If you think I am a bot, why are you engaging with me? What a sad life you must have.
Your logic seems unfounded, I'm starting to think YOU might be a machine :thonk:You don't even realise you are answering three threads of the same conversation simultaneously.
No, I do. I just wanna point out to you how you're being a dickhead. You're just being a dickhead everywhere. Do you really think there is a LLM advanced enough to carry this kind of conversation, but also not advanced enough to distinguish three different threads? How stupid are you? I know no people stupid enough to make such faults in logic, you must be a bot
See, this is why so many instances want to defederate from hexbear. The giant pig shit image, the immediate ad-hominem jump to racism or insults when you receive the slightest pushback to your ideas, the overt hostility to all other points of view, assuming everyone else is talking in bad faith, and the meme-y 4chan-like in culture that's forced on everyone else. I get being mad someone is calling you a bot, because that's not an argument either, but the initial replies were like that, too.
At least freagle made an actual argument with historical context and such, and even though I think things from the 1800s aren't an excuse to never work with the west again, especially with international incidents like this, they made a point and supported it earnestly. So it's not like hexbear is this bad, but damn, I get it sometimes.
The giant pig shit image, the immediate ad-hominem jump to racism or insults
There was nothing immediate about it. As I've already once described to you, I came to this thread after accusations of chinese bots were being thrown out. I came to this thread after other users had taken the time to explain their reasoning, which was entirely ignored.
Again, there is no assumption of racism. I've already pointed out once how incredibly racist it is to go "Well if you disagree with me, you're a chinese machine". It's sinophobic orientalism. This has been pointed out, to you as well. Stop pretending like I'm just yelling "racist" at everyone I disagree with.
This is also why most hexbear users aren't that sad you wanna defederate. You're delusional. You keep crying about "civility" and "sudden insults" as if these things come out of nowhere, despite every single interaction being like this - One of you libs starting bad-faith discussions, then crying when you're not being taken seriously.
assuming everyone else is talking in bad faith
Look thru this thread and tell me honestly that you think they're working in good faith.
At least freagle made an actual argument with historical context and such
Which wasn't responded to, instead it was derisively mocked.
and even though I think things from the 1800s aren't an excuse to never work with the west again
That wasn't their argument. Engage with the text that you're being presented, stop misrepresenting it. And if you disagree with the notion, then ARGUE AGAINST IT instead of insulting other users, then getting surprised when you're treated the same way.
they made a point and supported it earnestly.
Yeah, and it was met with bad-faith trolling. Why do you think I should take some troll seriously, just because you happen to agree with them? Civility is a two-way street, I'm not gonna validate some dickhead.
edit: Their response is yet another thoughtless trolling comment, yet you somehow take issue with me? It's pretty clear by your actions that your only real problem is that I disagree with you.
Cya later bot. This was fun. 9 separate replies now. This is a new game to me, I may do this again.
I thought your purpose was to wind me up, bot now you're running away?
I wish I could have as smooth a brain as yours. You think you've got something, and the second you get the slightest amount of pushback, you run away crying, rather than in any way interrogate your own worldview. It must be nice to be thoughtless like you.
I does sadden me though, because it's obvious you really think you have something here. Does your eyes glaze over when text crosses 120 chracters, or is there another reason you cannot comprehend what has been communicated to you?
The US is based entirely on arguments from 200 years ago, the fuck you talking about?
Your family was being starved in Ireland by the fucking English 200 years ago and Ireland is still dealing with English occupation of their land. The English also starved India, and it wasn't 200 years ago. You think that forced famine is somehow more relevant than the forced famine in Ireland? It's not. History is present now.
China was a closed nation because why? Why is China being closed bad? Why is it European right to forcibly open China? What kind of fucking argument is that?
And then to top it off you think the West gave up on being aggressive? What fucking planet do you live on because here on Earth the West is still bombing the shit out of countries, lynching national leaders in the streets, training terrorists and assassins, and violently killing and subjugating people all over the world. And you think the West extended a "friendly hand" that China has spurned. Holy shit you are fucking delusional. Read a fucking book.
And China is still stealing land and minerals from other countries. What exactly is your point?
Whataboutism. As far as I can tell, China is offering better deals to every country it trades with than the West does. The West use neocolonial debt traps to control the global South. China, however, forgives millions in debts and defers payments and interest every year and even the analysis from the most rabid Westoids shows that China is not engaged in debt trapping.
China doesn't invade other countries and then grant mineral rights and extraction contracts to Chinese companies like the US does literally on every habitable continent. The US and UK overthrow democratically elected governments regularly in order to protect their oil interests. China does nothing like this. You are projecting Western behaviors onto China.
I am not Chinese, you don't get to accuse me of doing these things. The Myanmar discussion is a little too fresh for us to have, we need some more clarity on what's going on. The Uyghurs though, you're gonna need to do some research on that. Most of the "evidence" is actually a braindead report from one man who is an evangelical Christian in Germany who thinks all the Jews will perish during the rapture which will occur in his lifetime, he thinks birth control in Germany is murder, and he thinks IUDs in China are genocide. The Uyghur population is GROWING in China and has been growing since records on this sort of thing began. There's never been a genocide in history where the target of the genocide has a population increase. There's no actual evidence for a genocide, just a warmongering narrative from the West, because that's what the West does - it lies in order to justify war. It's been doing it for hundreds of years now, nonstop. And you think the West stopped engaging in aggression and is just trying to be friendly with China. You're a fool.
Everything else you wrote is just rabid orientalism. You're a racist and you'll believe anything the lying West tells you about their chosen racial enemy so you can sleep well at night knowing that when the US tortures prisoners with power drills and rape and genital mutilation that they're doing it for a good cause.
Also, I don't think it's just the one crazy guy. The UN also sent someone over in 2022, and they published the UN Human Rights Office report on Xinjiang, which was pretty damning. It's sources include interviewing people who lived in Xinjiang at the time the abuse had been reported. They also restricted where she could go so she couldn't do a full investigation, which also isn't a great look. And this was by Michele Bachlet, someone who had been accused of being too soft on Beijing before, who praised China before, and who you'd probably agree with on other subjects like Israel's occupation of Palestine and who disagrees with US sanctions during the pandemic.
The wikipedia article cites Adrian Zenz prolifically. So most of what you're reading comes from the same ridiculous and disgraced source that nearly every other report on the matter comes from. But, the Uyghur birthrate IS decreasing. That's what happens universally when communities become more affluent, more educated, and more secure. But what's the population growth rate? It was 11.4% growth. Now it's 3.7%. Is that a decline in population? No. It's an increase in population, a 3.7% increase in population. Explain to me how a genocide increases the population by 3.7%. I'll wait.
Also, I don’t think it’s just the one crazy guy. The UN also sent someone over in 2022, and they published the UN Human Rights Office report on Xinjiang, which was pretty damning.
That UN report literally cites Zenz as it's primary form of evidence that doesn't come from sources managed by the intelligence community. Remember that the CIA has an East Turkistan project to incite terrorist violence by spreading extreme interpretations of Islam in the reason as an explicit program to destabilize China. You cannot trust anything that the West touches in this regard. That's why we refer to the 30+ countries with Muslim majorities who actually toured Xinjiang and say not only is there no genocide but in fact Xinjiang is a place that is good and healthy for the continuation of the Uyghur culture.
It’s sources include interviewing people who lived in Xinjiang at the time the abuse had been reported
But aren't actually in Xinjiang. There are plenty of people who claim to be from the region. There are also plenty of people who were arrested due to actually being involved in extremist groups with ties to the CIA program. These groups had several different ways of identifying themselves including dress, vocabulary and talking points, and interpretations of history and religion, and symbolism. They also have networks that connect them to wider regional logistical partisan and terrorist networks. So when they escape Chinese law enforcement and get out of Xinjiang, they tell their story about how they were imprisoned after being profiled for wearing "traditional" clothes, all the while if you actually go to Xinjiang people are wearing traditional clothes all over the place, and most of them know what the extremists look like, what they wear, how they talk, and where they congregate.
They also restricted where she could go so she couldn’t do a full investigation, which also isn’t a great look
Because the West has a history of using the lie of "impartial inspections" for espionage and war propaganda. China has no requirement to comply with Western inspections while not a single Western organization is doing inspections or oversight of the CIA program for East Turkistan extremism or any of the dozen other programs that the West created to do harm to China.
And this was by Michele Bachlet, someone who had been accused of being too soft on Beijing before, who praised China before, and who you’d probably agree with on other subjects like Israel’s occupation of Palestine and who disagrees with US sanctions during the pandemic.
Appeal to authority. I don't give a shit what her former opinions on this are. Her position on this topic uncritically cites a right-wing anti-semitic German evangelical who's report stated that China was installing over 100 IUDs per person and also counted removal of an IUD the same as the installation of an IUD and then construed access to voluntary family planning medical care as evidence of genocide despite population continuing to grow. Remember that the UN didn't even allow the PRC to be part of the UN until 1971, instead giving the seat to the KMT in Taiwan during the most violent and brutal years of the White Terror when the KMT killed tens of thousands of people for the political crime of agreeing that the PRC was now the government of China. So, expecting the UN to be an impartial and valid arbiter, especially in matters regarding China, is just ignoring the entire history of the North Atlantic's relationship and the UN's relationship with China.
To be fair, I'm basically with the UN on this in that I'm not fully convinced it's a genocide, but there's a lot of evidence against them of at least some human rights abuses. Like it might be tending towards cultural genocide, through not letting them wear their clothes or practice their religion or culture, which would be how the population is still increasing.
As for it all just being Zenz's word, what about the satellite pictures of their massive camps and their growth, videos and pictures of their re-education schools (think I saw this on the Jon Oliver episode of the subject?), Xi's 2017 order that all religions have to be Chinese in nature, and some Uyghur saying they had family members arrested and now don't know where they are, like Ilham Tohti.
Like it could be that these camps are necessary to quell a massive terrorism group, and at least they said the schools have been dismantled, but it comes off as the Islamophobic version of the WW2 Japanese-American internment camps where innocent are thrown in with the guilty. Why else would they need to be that big? And not letting people see the prisoners like that guy I linked above isn't great either. It's not a great look, especially since the people defending it are usually the same people criticizing the US's massive prison industrial complex, although I sometimes confuse the views of ML communists, who might be okay with that if they were used on the right people, and anarchists, who I know are definitely not.
I think the Jon Oliver video convinced me the most along with normal news articles detailing the history and China's treatment of the region. Do you have a source for the East Turkistan Project? It comes off as a conspiracy theory.
And I know it's trite, but if you've got a YouTube video debunking Jon's, I'd be curious to hear it out, too. It's like one I heard before debunking Jon's video on Venezuela helped convince me at one point that it's our complicated than it seems. But the Uyghur situation I'm still not convinced on. I'll read up on the East Turkmenistan thing and see if there are any links between them and US Int, but still, there might just be more than one bad guy. Too many accusations and China is being so secretive. China is allowed to be distrustful of the West, but I don't think that trumps human rights.
Sources on East Turkestan project:
https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/zxxx_662805/202205/t20220507_10683090.html (Chinese source which cites its references)
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/east-turkestan-islamic-movement-etim (Pro US/CIA source that shows you what the Western narrative is)
https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=4767d3ce-8490-464f-8508-d8f3b7878808&subId=703775 (PDF of Australian minister's analysis of the situation submitted to Australian parliament to oppose sanctions)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Turkistan_Government-in-Exile (note that the East Turkestan Govt in Exile was formed in Washington DC and operates out of Washington DC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkistan_Islamic_Party (note that the US has listed this extremist party as having "training and financial assistance" from Al-Qaeda and ...)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasan_Mahsum (But the party was founded by in 1940 and associated with Islamic extremists fighting the USSR, which we know the US funded and trained)
https://apnews.com/article/79d6a427b26f4eeab226571956dd256e (AP article about how Uighur's are fighting against Assad in Syria after being trained by Al-Qaeda)
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2021/10/05/bidens-era-of-strategic-competition-494588 (politico short blurb about how the Taliban is cooperating with China to remove East Turkestan militants from the Chinese border now that the US has left the region)
https://www.ned.org/testimony-by-damon-wilson-before-senate-foreign-relations-committee-on-democracy-and-human-rights-us-tools-and-responses/ (NED, the CIA's "legal" arm, states they support Uyghur partners)
http://english.scio.gov.cn/xinjiangfocus/2020-03/05/content_77241200.htm (Chinese article, but really well done history. If you don't believe the CIA/Dalai Lama connection, just read his brother's book)https://asiatimes.com/2021/04/why-xinjiang-is-central-to-us-cold-war-on-china/ (Great article by Vijay Prashad on the strategy without the accusations of direct CIA training)
https://www.newsclick.in/the-US-trying-light-match-islamic-extremism-china-xinjiang (Another great article about the origins of US-led jihad and the origins of Uyghur extermism)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB9HRKKZHak (Interview with Vijay Prashad about the topic)
https://ndupress.ndu.edu/Portals/68/Documents/stratperspective/inss/strategic-perspectives-42.pdf (Page 16 centers the jihadist terrorism in the region that extends from the 80s into today and is recognized by US academia and military)Like it might be tending towards cultural genocide
Still no. What the US is doing to the native population is cultural genocide. Xinjiang is a legally protected autonomous region explicitly to prevent assimilation as a requirement to engage in society. They teach and speak their native language in school, they conduct commercial and government business in their native language. China is running the most complex multi-cultural society in the history of the world. They are not engaged in cultural genocide.
through not letting them wear their clothes or practice their religion or culture
There are more mosques per capita in Xinjiang than anywhere in the world. The clothes and practices you're talking about are explicitly East Turkistan separatists, a movement with no basis in history that was fomented by the CIA in a radicalization program, the existence of which is public knowledge, with the explicit purpose of destabilizing China, just like the CIA used to train Tibetan terrorists and then airlift them into Tibet.
As for it all just being Zenz’s word, what about the satellite pictures of their massive camps and their growth, videos and pictures of their re-education schools (think I saw this on the Jon Oliver episode of the subject?), Xi’s 2017 order that all religions have to be Chinese in nature, and some Uyghur saying they had family members arrested and now don’t know where they are, like Ilham Tohti.
Since the days of the Mujahideen, the US and British military intelligence agencies have been developing a perverted interpretation of Islam for the purpose of creating religious extremists, training them in guerilla warfare, and aiming them at countries they want to control. The Uyghur's of Xinjiang are the target of the CIA East Turkistan radicalization program. The satellite pictures do not actually show anything like what would constitute even a human rights violation let alone a genocide. Prisons and re-education are literally the response to the radicalization program. The number of terrorist attacks in Xinjiang plummeted through this program, and instead of vilifying Islam, like the West does, the autonomous region is still autonomous. Xi's order that all religions must not call for the destruction of the Chinese state is pretty straightforward. If the USA is inventing a history of East Turkistan and wrapping a religious fervor around the project to separate from China and create an independent Islamic state, then the solution is to establish that Islam is just fine, but religious justification for terrorism and separatism remove the protection from the state that all religions have. Thus, Xinjiang is still massively Muslim and the state is allowed to arrest extremists who justify their extremism with a perverted interpretation of Islam and they get reeducated IN ISLAM to show the contradictions in their position. They are reeducated away from the radicalization programs of the CIA and MI6.
but it comes off as the Islamophobic version of the WW2 Japanese-American internment camps where innocent are thrown in with the guilty
Stop projecting Western racist atrocities on the rest of the world. Chinese people were exposed to the worst excesses of European racism. They are steeped in that history. They have zero desire to repeat it. They are not rounding up everyone who looks Muslim. They are, however, likely catching some innocent people in their efforts to stop attacks at the root. On balance, since they aren't harming these people, but rather establishing a process by which they can be sure they are deradicalizing as many people as they can, I think we can agree that it's better than the dragnet the USA implemented after 9/11 and the number of innocent people they kidnapped, tortured, and put in secret prisons in other countries and left them to rot or die.
Why else would they need to be that big?
Do you have any idea how big Xinjiang is? How many people are in ISIS or Al Qaeda? Would you rather the prisons actually be small fenced in yards with people packed in like sardines? Or should the facilities for these people be large, spacious, and accommodating? Maybe you can't imagine China imprisoning people and treating them well because the US treats pregnant women like dogs by packing 4 of them into a single cell or because they put toddlers in solitary confinement. But the PLA won the war because they showed the KMT soldiers that they were far more humane, far more thoughtful, and far more just than the KMT was. That history doesn't die easily.
And not letting people see the prisoners like that guy I linked above isn’t great either
China has no obligation, while fighting a Western radicalization program, to let Westerns inspect their operations. Beyond the possible ways that could be used to inoculate new radicalization targets against reeducation, the West has zero moral standing and cannot set these terms and China is letting them know they have no grounds to impose terms on how China fixes a mess the West created.
especially since the people defending it are usually the same people criticizing the US’s massive prison industrial complex, although I sometimes confuse the views of ML communists, who might be okay with that if they were used on the right people, and anarchists, who I know are definitely not.
Anarchists don't support China, so that's easy. Listen, the US imprisons so many people that even with massive prisons in Xinjiang China's prison population per capita still doesn't even come close to the US's. The US also has a massive extractivist parole system so you can't even count just the people in prison you also have to count all the people with ankle bracelets AND all the people with $50k in debt to the prison that garnish their meager wages for the rest of their life. You are projecting Western atrocities onto China and then getting confused why people who criticize American atrocities also support China. It's because you are imagining Western atrocities are equivalently happening in China when they aren't.
China is allowed to be distrustful of the West, but I don’t think that trumps human rights.
China is distrustful of the West because the West is the worst offender against human rights the world has ever seen, and a lot of those human rights atrocities happened under Western occupation of Asia.
It'll take me awhile to go through all them lol, but thanks for all the sources. You're one of the few people I've seen from lemmygrad or hexbear not just immediately default to ad hominem attacks, trolling, and pig poop balls, and I appreciate the actual attempt at a discussion in good faith instead of shouting "racist lib" and running back to your echo chamber to make fun of how clueless all us libs are. I appreciate it.
Some good points there, but I will say, you're acting like the West are the only civilizations which have ever committed atrocities, which I think is a mistake to make. Every large group of humans have been capable of doing such horrible things, as we've seen in wars and such all over the world.
The West is quite literally the only civilization that ever dominated 80% of the world. The West is the only civilization to engage in full on extinction hunting, from the buffalo in America to steal treaty land to the deer on Taiwan to many other animals. The West is the only civilization to develop fascism. What we all know and understand as systemic racism is a Western system. The West developed capitalism and spread it. The West created the most effective and brutal forms of chattel slavery, apartheid, and genocide.
But more importantly, none of those things are merely "in the past". Unlike the ancient histories of atrocities, the atrocities of the West have been happening in an unbroken chain of events for the last 600 years to the present day. Your daily coffee, tea, banana, coca-cola, potatoes, corn, sugar, and many many other foods are the direct heritage of the brutality of the West and it has never let go of its spoils. The king of England was photographed on his recent coronation wearing literally millions of dollars of stolen resources from India. The West forced famines on people, continues to extract billions from the people they have subjugated, and continues to launch wars of dominance destroying the lives of millions.
No one has killed more people, dominated more land, systematized more brutality, dehumanized more thoroughly, and benefitted from it all more profitably than the West. And when we finally dismantle the West and reverse the damage it's done, then maybe a new violent force will arise and after a couple centuries you can argue that it's not just the West. Until then, drop the whataboutism.
I don't have a John Oliver video, but I do have this https://xinjiangahr.carrd.co/ which is a collection of well-researched data on the subject, gathered up in an easily approachable and surveyable format
The racist misgenderer peddling conspiracry theories doesn't wanna engage with me anymore!
when measuring centuries a bit of give and take is fine.
It was after all a protracted team effort of subjugation and well, by today's standards, genocide.
Most nations would be a bit butt hurt about it or at the very least work to prevent it from happening again.
People like you: I don't care about history, we're different today and you should let us do what we want.
China: go fuck yourself.
And yet people like you are shocked that's what China tells you. China's been here for thousands of years, for China 200 years is recent history. It's cute that your people were starving though, hopefully that happens to you.
Since you've already established yourself as a conspiracy theorist it's no surprise that you also think people disagreeing with you is another conspiracy :che-smile:
Stating that China's insistent interference does not make a conspiracy theory. It states a fact. If China does not negative comments, then it should not endorse negative actions.
Also my pronouns are they/them, which I know you can see, so nice of you to throw another form of bigotry in there as well.
Liberals and casual bigotry, name a more iconic duo
"Everyone that disagrees with me is a scheming oriental machine" and other racist utterances by liberal bigots
You keep calling me a racist, and yet use terms like weeb. The only racist remarks I am seeing are from yourself.
I've not used the term weeb once you idiot.
"You're a chinese machine" Is an incredibly racist utterance. Better yourself
Imagine somebody you dated physically and emotionally abused you for 20 years and then 10 years later they get upset that you still care about something that happened so long ago lmao
China opened up long before the soviet union collapsed. that's just wrong.
like 20 years wrong. You really need to do some reading chief.
it's a thing and kind of rough
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation
Common sense would dictate that we look into the cause of the pandemic. But I totally get the fear of the pointless propaganda war that would have probably come out of it.
It's beyond belief at this point how much the western press will bend any story about China into China bad.
Unironic lab leak theory
This, except the lab in question is Fort Detrick.
I guarantee that you would be cooking up these conspiracy theories regardless of any investigations that China had allowed. They could have shipped every citizen of Wuhan straight to your house so you could personally interview them and it still wouldn't be enough.
Regardless of how credible they seem
Where's the credibility? All you do is call people bots because you can't handle being disagreed with. Where's your factual basis for your claims? Where's your trustworthy sources and references? You have nothing except childish racism and insults
They don't have any factual basis. They're an incredibly bitter small minded racist. They've been posting the same shit on almost every thread they're in. It's really sad to to see. As much as we teach our children about tolerance and acceptance you still get people like this with their warped views. They're too far down the rabbit hole of racism to notice so will just lash out at anyone by calling them a bot. It's pathetic.
:yea: what's really sad is that it seems like they think they're in some sort of brave fight against evil Chinese propaganda, which there's apparently dedicated a lot of resources to spread on a niche webforum
You could just stop being racist. It's really easy not to get called a racist actually. I do it all the time. I don't get called a racist daily.
You can't just assume someone is racist because they disagree with you. It's like calling you antisemitic for criticizing Israel. They brought up that China shouldn't have blocked initial investigations and instead of replying with any facts yourself, you immediately jumped to assuming they're racist and how they would've behaved if they hadn't.
I'm not assuming people are racist because they disagree with me. I'm pointing out that their gut-reaction accusation of calling others a "chinese bot" is racist.
This has nothing to do with disagreeing. I made no assumptions, I pointed out racist language and behaviour.They brought up that China shouldn't have blocked initial investigations and instead of replying with any facts yourself
Other users have already engaged with them in this argument, to which they responded with racist accusations of being "chinese bots".
Since they have already shown that this is how they behave, and since I have similarly pointed this out to them - which also resulted in childish racism as a response from them - why would I in any way validate them with civility?
The Chinese should have already hosted an investigation.
That wording totally doesn't sound racist.
Something happens in Kenya
The Blacks should have already hosted an investigation.
Everyone that disagrees with the diet-racist liberal is a Chinese/Russian bot, a bedtime story for diet-racist liberals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdyin6uipy4
I am in favor of a joint multilateral investigation into Ft Dietrick
What ever happened to the mysterious Vaping disease in USA in 2019? Its like covid happened and then vape disease disappeared. Funny how people were dying of vape disease and Unknown respiratory disease was destroying Eldercare facilities in USA way before Covid was ever discovered in China but nobody is looking into those deaths or their origins.
Unknown respiratory disease was destroying Eldercare facilities in USA way before Covid was ever discovered in China but nobody is looking into those deaths or their origins.
Of course they investigated it and the article you posted confirms that.
And this one does too: https://apnews.com/a7320c946aba47f494dc9a2f649bfad3
The Fairfax County Health Department put out a release on saying that they are investigating, one day before your article was posted.
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/health/outbreak-investigation-assisted-living-facility-springfield
Update: July 29, 2019
No new cases of illness have occurred in Heatherwood since July 15, 2019. Results of earlier testing submitted to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicated rhinovirus, a virus that causes the common cold. The facility continues normal operations.
And about EVALI ("vaping disease")
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-disease/faq/index.html The CDC stopped reporting cases because there weren't many, but some states continued and EVALI can be troublesome since the symptoms are similar to COVID. It's suspected that EVALI is/was caused by vitamin E acetate, but there isn't enough evidence to know for sure.
https://www.rsna.org/news/2022/march/EVALI-Diagnosis
Also the COVID-19 outbreak was WAY bigger in scale so of course it's more interesting.
TL:DR: Both outbreaks were investigated.
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/health/outbreak-investigation-assisted-living-facility-springfield
Despite extensive testing of multiple specimens, no specific pathogen was identified as the cause of the outbreak
So it could have been covid or a precursor.
https://www.rsna.org/news/2022/march/EVALI-Diagnosis
"both EVALI and COVID-19 can manifest with similar clinical and imaging findings"
They literally just got a bunch of people who got sick asked if they vaped and decided it was vaping that got them sick after ruling out a few other possibilities. A percentage of the tiny sample showed no vitamin e acetate so that can't be the cause.
Vape usage hasn't slowed down yet all but EVALI disappeared? That's like if everyone kept using asbestos but asbestosis just disappeared. Occam's razor says EVALI was Covid before they knew what covid was.
So it could have been covid or a precursor.
There is nothing that is indicating that. The evidence that we do have is that the "several specimens were positive for rhinovirus, the cause of the common cold.".
If it really were COVID (which btw makes no sense since the outbreak ended very quickly and the amount of sick people was typical for the time of year), wouldn't the testing had discovered that the virus is very similar to SARS-CoV-1 like they did with SARS-CoV-2?
A percentage of the tiny sample showed no vitamin e acetate so that can't be the cause.
We don't know for sure and a tiny percentage doesn't necessarily di
Vape usage hasn't slowed down yet all but EVALI disappeared? That's like if everyone kept using asbestos but asbestosis just disappeared. Occam's razor says EVALI was Covid before they knew what covid was.
As the article states, EVALI didn't disappear just because of COVID.
While there has been a noticeable decrease in EVALI cases since 2020 that is likely due to the COVID-19 pandemic, which has closed schools and limited social activities limited, the illness has not gone away. Furthermore, because EVALI is no longer being officially tracked, it is difficult to know whether cases are increasing.
“EVALI has by no means disappeared,” Dr. Kligerman said. “We continue to see numerous cases, even during the pandemic, many of which are initially misdiagnosed as COVID-19.”
One fact which should make it very clear that's not COVID is that COVID is caused by a virus. And if it were COVID it would have spread and killed way more people, you know one of the famous traits of COVID.
Even if you believe strongly that it's still COVID, don't make up crap about how they didn't investigate when they absolutely did, in the case of EVALI still do.
There is nothing that is indicating that. The evidence that we do have is that the "several specimens were positive for rhinovirus, the cause of the common cold.".
Did you not read? its in the article you linked. No pathogen identified. Some of them may have had Rhinovirus too but obviously that was ruled out or they wouldn't have said "Despite extensive testing of multiple specimens, no specific pathogen was identified as the cause of the outbreak"
While there has been a noticeable decrease in EVALI cases since 2020 that is likely due to the COVID-19 pandemic, which has closed schools and limited social activities limited, the illness has not gone away.
Why would closing schools have stopped a non communicable disease caused by a hobby? That is stupid. Furthermore Schools have been reopened for a long time.
One fact which should make it very clear that's not COVID is that COVID is caused by a virus. And if it were COVID it would have spread and killed way more people, you know one of the famous traits of COVID.
Maybe it was just not as deadly or communicable at that point? Covid mutates you know. If it were a precursor kids sharing vape pens it would make transmission far easier. If there is any chance this was covid why is there no investigation into the origins of covid in USA?
You know the Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain? Its just the first place where they identified that it was a new disease. Why do they keep pushing for China to be investigated when it could have come from anywhere and just been identified first in China?
Did you not read? its in the article you linked. No pathogen identified. Some of them may have had Rhinovirus too but obviously that was ruled out or they wouldn't have said "Despite extensive testing of multiple specimens, no specific pathogen was identified as the cause of the outbreak"
Again, if they tested the patients in July 2019 they would have noticed that the virus was very similar to SARS -CoV-1, if it were COVID. They didn't find anything though. The scientists belive it was the common cold and the scientists says that the amount of sick people was not unusual for that time of the year.
Why would closing schools have stopped a non communicable disease caused by a hobby? That is stupid. Furthermore Schools have been reopened for a long time.
Do you have a hard time reading? It says "the illness has not gone away". Also, smoking is something that's often done in groups, so it isn't unusual that it were to reduce if social activities stopped. Not sure why you are denying it, it did reduce the cases. I have much more trust in scientists that actually know stuff about this and have actually investigated it, than I do for random sceptics on the internet.
Maybe it was just not as deadly or communicable at that point? Covid mutates you know. If it were a precursor kids sharing vape pens it would make transmission far easier. If there is any chance this was covid why is there no investigation into the origins of covid in USA?
Yes but it ain't gonna mutate from a non virus to a virus. It makes no sense to investigate it further since there is absolutely no evidence that it's COVID. It's just wild speculation. If the only "evidence" you have is "but what if", then you should really reconsider.
Has anyone with any credibility suggested that the virus started outside China?
Why do they keep pushing for China to be investigated when it could have come from anywhere and just been identified first in China? M
Here's an article from the AP on how the WHO team had full access to everything they wanted to see during their visit to Wuhan.
You'll notice that link goes through the Wayback Machine, because the article now just says page unavailable.
Which is weird, because the search result clearly shows the text is still there.
Show
Would "impartial" Western media really do that? Half-assedly delete the inconvenient truths that they themselves reported?
