• Amorphous [any]
    37·
    4 years ago

    ok look i literally do not give a fuck what is offensive to your religion, drawing a picture of some guy is not immoral and anyone who suggests that it is can eat my entire ass

    i dont care if you're religious, but that apathy ends the second you start asking me to follow your dumb fucking religion's dumb fucking rules. fuck off

    • thelasthoxhaist [he/him]
      15·
      4 years ago

      looks like asking to not draw Muhammad is to much for cringe zoners like you

      • Amorphous [any]
        33·
        4 years ago

        asking me to follow religious rules is absolutely too much, yes.

        • thelasthoxhaist [he/him]
          18·
          4 years ago

          so if a japanese asks you to take of your shoes when entering his home, are you gonna call him an asshole too, to you basic decency is opression, and you want anyone from the global southto call you a comrade, radlib

          • moonlake [he/him]
            4·
            4 years ago

            The difference is that if you enter a Japanese person's house in shoes, it won't result in a random dude getting his fucking head cut off lol.

            Here's what I don't understand, if someone says that something is offensive in their religion I'm obviously going to respect that because I'm not an asshole. But if they say that something is a crime in their religion and the punishment is getting beheaded then I'm super not cool with that. They are imposing on me the rules of their religion, which I'm not a part of.

            It's the same way with Christianity and abortion or homosexuality. Everyone agrees that it's not cool that Christians are imposing their morality on the rest of the world, why is it different with Islam? That's an honest question, correct me if I'm being a lib.

            • mazdak
              ·
              1 year ago

              deleted by creator

            • nullinvert [she/her]
              ·
              4 years ago

              Being criticized over deliberately antagonizing people for their religious beliefs, especially if those people have been oppressed by the dominant culture, is not the same thing as being forced to follow a religion. It's not a hard difference to understand. And your comment seems to assume that Muslim people as a whole endorse the beheadings and are using them to impose Islam on other people. Which is a dangerous assumption to make.

          • penguin_von_doom [she/her]
            8·
            4 years ago

            What does taking your shoes off when entering someone's home has to do with their race? Why would you keep your shoes on, unless specifically asked in the first place?

            • thelasthoxhaist [he/him]
              4·
              4 years ago

              because its a respect thing (japanese tradition) just like not drawing muhammad is for muslims

              • penguin_von_doom [she/her]
                6·
                4 years ago

                Uhm, but you wouldnt take your shoes off when going to say a Germans friend place? I've never heard of this being a Japanese tradition specifically, thought everybody does that.

                Idk about the whole Mohammed thing. You're free to draw whatever you want, but showing these drawings to your Muslim friends is when it crosses the line into assholery. Just line showing pictures of your rare steak to your vegan friends is kinda shitty, even though in private you might love steak...

                • thelasthoxhaist [he/him]
                  5·
                  4 years ago

                  idk about germany but you dont take out your shoes in latin america when entering a home, but if a japanese asked me to i would do it ,just like if a muslim asked me to not draw muhammad.

                  • penguin_von_doom [she/her]
                    1·
                    4 years ago

                    Ok. In Europe (both East and West) taking your shoes off is also pretty universal, that's why I got confused by the comparison. But it still kinda holds.

          • Amorphous [any]
            39·
            4 years ago

            thats about cleanliness not religion, you people are fucking stupid

            • thelasthoxhaist [he/him]
              15·
              4 years ago

              its a traditions you dense idiot, stop being such a western chauvinist and accept not everyone country is a parasitic imperialist country based in western supremacy

              • Amorphous [any]
                31·
                4 years ago

                literally what the fuck are you talking about you fucking fool

                "take off your shoes or stay out of my house" completely valid. the reason is cleanliness. theres nothing wrong with that. similarly, "dont draw muhammad in my house or go away" thats fine too

                "dont draw muhammad in your own house" is fucking absurd and it's disgusting that you support it. its like a christian telling you not to have gay sex in your house because it's offensive to their religion

                fuck all the way off, your religion does not have power over my fucking life

                • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
                  8·
                  4 years ago

                  Why would you ever draw Muhammad? About the only reason anyone ever does is in an attempt to deeply insult an enormous number of people. That kind of "fuck you I do what I want" mentality doesn't garner much sympathy from me. Having a reasonable amount of respect for your fellow human beings (i.e., not doing something you would never otherwise do specifically to piss them off) is something we need more of.

                  Yeah, you're free to yell the N-word at the top of your lungs in public. Yeah, if a black person decides to beat you to death for it they're in the wrong, too. But my sympathy for you in that situation is limited because maybe you shouldn't be an absolute piece of shit just because you technically can.

                  • Amorphous [any]
                    24·
                    4 years ago

                    Why would you ever draw Muhammad?

                    i have never had any desire to do so and i probably never will, but it is not immoral to do so and i have every right if i did want to

                • Saif [he/him]
                  3·
                  4 years ago

                  no one has ever said "don't draw Muhammad in your own house"??? where the hell are you getting this from. nobody is asking you to not draw Muhammad in private, that's absurd and irrelevant to the question. this whole discourse is about western reactionaries intentionally enflaming the situation by drawing Muhammad outwardly, usually in racist big-nosed depictions i might add.

                  • Amorphous [any]
                    19·
                    4 years ago

                    this whole discourse is about western reactionaries intentionally enflaming the situation by drawing Muhammad outwardly

                    a muslim's right to tell a person what they can and can not draw based on religious rules end at their own doorstep. i dont care if they're drawing muhammad and then printing it on flags and flying those flags on every street corner in the entire world, it literally does not matter and anyone who gets upset at them for it is responsible for their own feelings, because no one has any obligation to respect rules specific to their religion

                • mao [he/him]
                  13·
                  4 years ago

                  deleted by creator

                  • Saif [he/him]
                    10·
                    4 years ago

                    the statement "religion is reactionary" as if you could conflate everything under the western conception of “religion” is unmaterial and unmarxist, go to bed.

                    Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. it is the VAPORWAVE of the masses.

    • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
      6·
      4 years ago

      i literally do not give a fuck what is offensive

      eat my entire ass

      fuck off

      Civility at the expense of accomplishing something real is bullshit, but man, you're not going to get very far with very many people if you're just an outright asshole.

      • Amorphous [any]
        16·
        4 years ago

        Do you understand how traumatic it is to grow up in an environment ruled, socially and legally, by religion? It's fucking horrifying. And then to see people who are supposed to be supporting you calling you racist, a chud, an asshole, etc for daring to suggest that religion shouldn't control the life of a non-religious person? That's terrifying too. I'm lashing out because this is truly a terrible, disgusting thing that people here are thoughtlessly supporting.

    • Funnyleaf [he/him,use name]
      13·
      4 years ago

      Lmao bro is this how you treat trans comrades as well? it's super easy to respect a muslim's desire to not depict the prophet because it's disrespectful, much like it's easy to use someone's preferred pronouns. imagine respecting people lmao

      • chmos [any]
        11·
        4 years ago

        What kind of consistency is this idea based on? That whenever someone holds someone else in high esteem you have to respect that? So by this logic could Trump supporters call you bigoted for drawing mean pictures of Trump?

        • Funnyleaf [he/him,use name]
          6·
          4 years ago

          There's not hundreds of years of cultural context built up around the idea of artistically depicting Trump, this isn't even remotely a fair example.

        • rozako [she/her]
          5·
          4 years ago

          It’s really less about the specific concept of drawings, and more so just... maybe respect religions that are minorities. Like will you die if you don’t post something incredibly offensive to an already targeted group?

      • Amorphous [any]
        20·
        4 years ago

        fuck off, being trans is not a fucking religion. eat shit

          • Amorphous [any]
            21·
            4 years ago

            no, but i do not respect religious rules and i absolutely never will and should not be expected to.

            • Funnyleaf [he/him,use name]
              12·
              4 years ago

              Listen man I'm not a believer either, i'm not saying you should be following any religious doctrine. I'm just saying there's no material difference between respecting someone's cultural or religious sensibilities. You're alienating religious comrades for what seems to be no reason other than an imagined, arbitrary distinction between religion and any other way of life.

              I could use your same logic to say that i should be able to use the n word because i arbitrarily decided that the set of social rules around why i shouldn't don't apply to me, and i shouldn't be expected to follow them.

              • disco [any]
                12·
                4 years ago

                You kind of are saying that he needs to follow their religious doctrine, though.

                • Funnyleaf [he/him,use name]
                  4·
                  4 years ago

                  The prohibition against artistically depicting Mohammad isn't even in the Qu'ran, for one thing. Even if it were, he still wouldn't be beholden to it. He could draw Mohammed to his heart's content, much like he could commit any other microaggression against any other group of people.

                  But why? For what purpose would a non-believer do that, knowing full well it would cause a fuss among a people a billion strong, unless that was the point? The only reason you would go out of your way to do this, as many reactionaries have over the last two decades, is to be edgy and offensive on purpose. "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."

                  Nobody has ever tripped with a pencil in hand and fell on a piece of paper accidentally drawing the Prophet and accidentally posting it online happening to fall on their keyboard to spell "this is my depiction of the prophet Mohammed", it isn't even something you could justifiably say was done in ignorance unless you live under the world's largest rock. It's something done by right wing islamaphobes to purposefully enflame religious tensions, and my dear comrades are dragging me out of my peaceful lurking to justify it. Is it really that hard for leftists to respect people?

              • Amorphous [any]
                23·
                4 years ago

                i’m not saying you should be following any religious doctrine

                you literally are though, you're saying that i should feel bad about people drawing muhammad because muslims think it's wrong to do so

                once again, fuck off

          • chmos [any]
            15·
            4 years ago

            Drawing a mean picture of a Muslim is islamophobic. Respect Muslims of course. But raping a child, advocating slavery, etc. This does preclude you from respect and no one else can save you from that.

            • Funnyleaf [he/him,use name]
              4·
              4 years ago

              It is clear that your outlook on Islam and Mohammed isn't based on a wide breadth of knowledge on the subject, which isn't particularly surprising or unique. This is okay though, because I've been noticing that there has been a concerted effort from some Muslim users on this site to try to reach out and inform comrades about misconceptions like what you've mentioned here. I saw a post by u/Saif, moderator of the new c/islam, regarding another user's perception of Aisha ("raping a child") that might clear that up, for instance.

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]
      7·
      4 years ago

      Carrying around a picture of a butchered steer isn't immoral but it would upset some people. Carrying one around and showing it to everyone just because you're upset that people are vegan would be kind of a dick move.

      • Amorphous [any]
        21·
        4 years ago
        1. that is not equivalent for obvious reasons
        2. veganism is not a fucking religion
        • Frank [he/him, he/him]
          13·
          4 years ago

          Veganism is a set of beliefs and practices based around a shared moral and ideological belief, so yes, it is a religion.

          And yes, running around with a picture that you know will upset people for the explicit purpose of upsetting people is exactly the same.

    • GravenImage [none/use name]
      ·
      4 years ago

      drawing a picture of some guy is not immoral

      "I'm not going to worship that golden calf, I'm a rational and logical!" (ten minutes later) "GOLDEN CALF TAKE MY FIRST BORN!!!!"