Best Star Trek?
The Original Series is the best one imo. You got the classic Kirk, McCoy, Spock trio. Uhura's super hot, the production design just oozes that cool Raygun Gothic vibe because its from that pre-swedish minimalism era where the future still looked visually enriching. Also that episode with Apollo is pretty sad even though he was kind of a dick.
Your thoughts?
Ds9 because I love O'brien's giant potato head and the intimate, but mostly straight, relationship he ends up having with Bashir is just really nice.
You've got Wallace Shawn showing up in random episodes as the fucking Grand Nagus, which might be the best use of his voice I've ever seen.
Also rommunism and this guy :quark:
We get to delve deep into Worf as well, more so than TNG, which rules.
Then there's Benjamin Sisco, who ends up being a way more realistic depictions of a star fleet captain than we've had before.
Kira is a literal freedom fighter shown in a positive light. Zero chance a character like her, or the whole plot line of her planet, would be written for TV today.
But it's mostly about o'brien's big fucking head. Love that thing.
We get to delve deep into Worf as well, more so than TNG, which rules.
Warf is that Gunners mate that started out as undesignated and has a knife collection that he shows everybody his newest additions to after quarters
A friend and I were circlejerking about Star Trek for the millionth time and both of us think that DS9 is the best. He mentioned the episode of TNG with Bashir, and how he is just, like, super boring in that episode, and more or less denuded of all character by the writers. Siddig does a good job and puts his energy into the part, but on the page he's just pretty bland compared with the guy we know from DS9.
In taking a look at that episode, I think I figured out the main difference between TNG and DS9. This is my theory, anyway. In most TNG episodes, there is some kind of technical or cultural problem (Wesley strayed into the flowers, and now must die!). The characters on the Enterprise must then solve that problem before it is too late. There is almost no inter-personal conflict between them. They all like each other and work well together. And they don't really have any flaws (until Picard slaughters thousands of people as Locutus). The better episodes of TNG (I think) rely on interpersonal conflict rather than random arbitrary challenges. An episode like The Best of Both Worlds combines these: the crew has to fight the Borg while also fighting their own captain.
In DS9, in contrast, interpersonal conflicts drive most of the plots, and every character has some kind of "flaw" that the writers push as far as they can. Odo is fighting a war against his own people (and is also a fucking cop who executed Bajoran freedom fighters for the Cardassians!). Kira is trying to balance Bajor's freedom with its security needs in a dangerous Alpha Quadrant. Sisko is kind of into being a religious figure for an alien people, which flies in the face of the prime directive. He has to balance THREE or even four different duties: to the Bajorans, the Federation, his crew, and his son. Jake stays on the station, putting himself in a lot of danger, because he wants to be a writer. Nog is conflicted with his Ferengi family in joining the federation, and overcompensates for that by being obsessed with Red Squad, which almost gets him killed. Quark is a greedy businessman surrounded by communists who kind of just leave him alone and even help him out sometimes, which in the end makes him much less of a fucking asshole. O'Brien also has to balance family with work. Bashir is super smart but kind of alienating to his colleagues, and I've seen some people call him creepy, but even as a kid I thought he was really cool. Worf has a similar conflict to Odo: is he with his people or not? And Dax...Dax is just kind of there, a trans character, seemingly along with Odo, who as far as I can tell "chooses" to identify as male.
Every pre-2009 Trek series has good and bad episodes, but I would say that at least 95% of DS9's episodes are either good or great.
This checks out—in fact I believe Roddenberry had an explicit policy against interpersonal conflict among crew members, which handicapped the writers of TNG in some ways. He probably would have hated DS9.
That was apparently kind of an open question, since DS9 goes against a lot of what Roddenberry wanted—an idealistic future, for example. But supposedly he gave the show his blessing just before he died.
It seems like DS9 somehow flew under a lot of people's radar. Berman was apparently way more focused on Voyager, which is also (apparently) one reason why it sucked so hard. And as far as I know, DS9 isn't like "oh my god, these people are trans!" Odo and Dax are just kind of there, and none of the characters are ever like "wow, we have TRANS people on this space station! Go us!"
DS9 is probably objectively the best television, but TNG is comfy and nostalgic so it's my favorite.
Holy shit I was literally ranting about this to my roommate last night because I mentioned having a hankering for watching an episode or two and she said something along the lines of "it just isn't my kind of show if I wanted that kind of stuff I'd watch Star Wars" and I proceeded to spend fifteen minutes talking about how I wouldn't even consider the two the same type of science-fiction & capped it off by showing her Sisko's 'All it cost was one senator, one criminal, and my self respect' log scene and explaining the context of the captain being a fucking war criminal. DS9 was the series I remember laying on the couch on Saturday afternoons eating lunch and watching (but barely following) the episodes as they aired with my dad.
It probably goes DS9 > TNG > Voyager > Enterprise > Original. I have yet to see Discovery or Picard.
I have yet to see Discovery or Picard.
Don't lol
On top of just being some of the most scatterbrained stories I've ever watched, they're also extremely lib. I just wish all the discourse surrounding them wasn't alt-right shit heads who hate the fact the main character is a woman. Their criticisms aren't even always off either, they just keep shoving racist/sexist crap inbetween. Almost makes me want to make my own video about them tbh
Almost makes me want to make my own video about them tbh
You should do it. I'm also frustrated by the lack of thoughtful criticism of CBS-All-Access-era Trek. Despite watching every episode, I barely have any idea what's happening in either series, and the aesthetic/tonal issues are...notable.
I wouldn’t even consider the two the same type of science-fiction
honestly, same. IMO, Star Wars is basically just fantasy with a space setting. Jedis are literally just wizards in the future.
I was always a big Star Wars fan and could never really get into Trek until recently. I'm still working my way through everything but with as much of a mess Star Wars has been recently, every new episode of TNG I watch is like a big breath of fresh air.
Following Star Wars lately has almost been like a chore.
Far Beyond the Stars is insanely good.
It's shocking it got made considering some of the other stuff that was shot down by cunt producers. Especially considering it's a story about cunt producers hampering progressive stories.
Also, the two cops in the episode are played by two villain actors as well. Weyoun and Dukat are cops lol
Don't tell anyone but I'm the guy who actually likes Enterprise.
I'm good with TOS TNG or DS9 being named the best tbh. I like them all a lot. I always end up picking DS9 though since it has the best character growth.
DS9 Is great for being kind of a forebearer to modern TV, but I feel it just lacks the iconic feel of TOS
TNG though, I'd say is about equal. Just again it lacks the iconic value
There is something special about TOS that I struggle to put into words. Despite it looking and sounding very "aged" it somehow feels the most believable or genuine I guess. I don't really know.
I've noticed this too. In the good episode of TOS, there's just "something about it." It almost seems like the actors—or even everyone involved—just really, really, really goes for it in those episodes. They give it their all. They seem to take it completely seriously, but in a good way. They almost feel like little kids playing imaginary games outside. The sets may look incredibly cheap, and the style may be painfully antiquated, but the dedication of the people involved makes it seem real. Bad episodes of TOS or other shows, in contrast, sometimes feel like everyone is just sort of going through the motions.
I showed my kids the Gorn episode a year or two ago, and to my great surprise it scared the shit out of them. They were like leaping off the couch and screaming in terror. We also watched "Balance of Terror," the one where Kirk fights the Romulans, and all of us were totally into it, even if the costumes for the Romulans looked completely ridiculous.
Its one of the last shows where stage acting is used rather than realism. Also the makeup and lighting angles aren't like that anymore. Every once in a while I catch Dr Crusher stage acting but thats her background from what I recall reading.
DS9 is my favorite of the tv series but I love the original series movies as well. I particularly love The Voyage Home because of the weird sapient whales communicating with aliens shit and the fun time travel antics. Seeing people from the post-capitalist Federation go back in time to the USA in the 80s is a romp and a riot.
To rank all the tv shows, I'd go with DS9>TNG>DISCO S1>ENT S3-4>VOY>TOS>ENT S1-2>DISCO S2>PICARD
I haven't seen Discovery season 3 yet so I can't rank it but I can't imagine it was worse than season 2 or Picard. Both are dogshit that are somehow even worse than early Enterprise.
DS9, TNG, TOS, LD, TAS, ENT, VOY, DISCO, PIC
I will not be taking questions
TOS had the best movies, TNG had the best TV. My ideal Trek combines elements of both with a completely unironic return to the 70s sci-fi aesthetic of big screens, lots of knobs, and spandex.
going through ds9 and its way more consistent than tng or tos. those series were good, but everyone knows they were spotty (season 1 of tng is some of the worst tv like ever; and who can forget tos at its dumbest and cheesiest when kirk, like, reads the us constitution to aliens), but almost every episode of ds9 has been a banger so far. so i guess thats my answer.
have not watched the new ones because they seem bad. discovery is obviously trying to be a marvel movie with big, dumb cgi action scenes and annoying, quippy joss whedon dialogue, and picard seems like it misses the point of star trek.
