Ocasio-Cortez said that while Republicans "leverage their right flank to gain policy concessions and generate enthusiasm," Democrats shut progressives out.
Republicans would have a majority if the progressive caucus voted against Pelosi, as you’re suggesting.
What? There is no "voted against". In this case it would be something like Pelosi 216, McCarthy 212, Someone else 6. No one wins, vote again.
There is no way for McCarthy to win.
Right-wing Democrats are happy to let AOC and co. sweat it out, and the gridlock has to end at some point (or if it doesn’t, how is that good?).
Vice versa could be said by right wing Dems. Progressives asserting their power to fuck shit up is what's needed, else they will continue to be "locked in the basement". If it stays gridlocked so what? They've shown that they have power and are willing to use it.
Even in that example this gambit didn’t work.
They accepted concessions, that's essentially what the whole debate about "getting a floor vote on M4A" is. I say that's liberal compromise and we should go for more.
For starters, you don't even get the meager crumbs of that $600 stimulus check or the enhanced unemployment. Having no House leadership would probably shut the government down sooner rather than later, too, which further fucks people over.
They accepted concessions, that’s essentially what the whole debate about “getting a floor vote on M4A” is.
They got nothing. They didn't force a different Speaker, and vague "procedural concessions" that aren't meaningful enough to merit even a cursory description are also nothing.
Similarly, forcing a vote on a bill that is DOA in the Senate (and that the President elect said he'd veto) is gaining nothing. Aren't we materialists here?
They got nothing. They didn’t force a different Speaker, and vague “procedural concessions” that aren’t meaningful enough to merit even a cursory description are also nothing.
Similarly, forcing a vote on a bill that is DOA in the Senate (and that the President elect said he’d veto) is gaining nothing. Aren’t we materialists here?
That's the alternative being presented by Dore and others. It's useless, but still less useless than just granting Pelosi an easy win. The point is if progressives don't push back that's an absolute loss.
if progressives don’t push back that’s an absolute loss
It's an absolute loss either way! Either way you get nothing!
The bottom line is that progressives can't force Pelosi out. At best they can force gridlock and hope the conservative Democrats cave before they do. Guess how that will play out.
My scenario: progressives show they are willing to use their power against establishment dems, even if nothing comes of itand lose, and show everyone how little power they have
You want progressives to die on this hill even though we both agree that would do nothing. When you've vastly outnumbered, you have to pick your battles a lot better.
What? There is no "voted against". In this case it would be something like Pelosi 216, McCarthy 212, Someone else 6. No one wins, vote again.
There is no way for McCarthy to win.
Vice versa could be said by right wing Dems. Progressives asserting their power to fuck shit up is what's needed, else they will continue to be "locked in the basement". If it stays gridlocked so what? They've shown that they have power and are willing to use it.
They accepted concessions, that's essentially what the whole debate about "getting a floor vote on M4A" is. I say that's liberal compromise and we should go for more.
Now read past the first line of my comment.
Gimme a sec
Ok, added that in.
Ryan grim discussed this with Dore. I'll take his interpretation of it over yours.
For starters, you don't even get the meager crumbs of that $600 stimulus check or the enhanced unemployment. Having no House leadership would probably shut the government down sooner rather than later, too, which further fucks people over.
They got nothing. They didn't force a different Speaker, and vague "procedural concessions" that aren't meaningful enough to merit even a cursory description are also nothing.
Similarly, forcing a vote on a bill that is DOA in the Senate (and that the President elect said he'd veto) is gaining nothing. Aren't we materialists here?
That's the alternative being presented by Dore and others. It's useless, but still less useless than just granting Pelosi an easy win. The point is if progressives don't push back that's an absolute loss.
It's an absolute loss either way! Either way you get nothing!
The bottom line is that progressives can't force Pelosi out. At best they can force gridlock and hope the conservative Democrats cave before they do. Guess how that will play out.
My scenario: progressives show they are willing to use whatever power they have against establishment dems, even if nothing comes of it.
Your scenario: progressives show they are pushovers who won't even try to fight establishment dems.
You want progressives to die on this hill even though we both agree that would do nothing. When you've vastly outnumbered, you have to pick your battles a lot better.