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  • SimonSaysLibertad [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    More than these ineffectual dorks and their stupid orgs. Normal ppl don't give a fuck about the rules section of the DSA nerd handbook

    • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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      4 years ago

      We're sure as shit not getting anything done without some type of organization, and any functioning organization is going to have some rules. Siding with a ranting media personality over people at least attempting to gain political power is a laughable take.

      • SimonSaysLibertad [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        Ranting by demanding a vote on a popular policy lol

        Pathetic bar for the socialist caucus. Can't even demand votes on shit from politicians who agree with them

        • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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          4 years ago

          Whether they do this or not, we're not getting M4A for years. It's immaterial. Berating anyone over this is ridiculous.

          • SimonSaysLibertad [none/use name]
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            4 years ago

            Put a vote to it, primary people who vote against it. Pretty simple. If thats not even possible what is the purpose of AOC and why is she functionally different from Nancy Pelosi?

            • Amorphous [any]
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              4 years ago

              what is the purpose of AOC

              there is none

              why is she functionally different from Nancy Pelosi?

              she's not, aside from being mildly more likeable.

            • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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              4 years ago

              We already know who's against it. We just had an election season where it was an issue in the primaries.

              • aqwxcvbnji [none/use name]
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                4 years ago

                Don't you think normal people, who're not in to poltics as much as you and I might be, might be outraged if they saw congres vote against medicare for all during a deadly pandemic which made millions of people lose their employer-based healthcare?

                And wouldn't you agfree that such acts are important in building the left?

                • fusion513 [none/use name]
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                  4 years ago

                  Doesn't the bi-partisan shoot-down of the $2K stimulus... plus the fact that everyone's going to be getting a comically low $600 check after 9 months of waiting accomplish the same thing?

                  And if people aren't paying attention to the thing which is literally - "here's some money," what makes you think they'll pay attention to the comparitively less-easy-to-understand (but still pretty simple) universal healthcare stuff?

                  • aqwxcvbnji [none/use name]
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                    4 years ago

                    Doesn’t the bi-partisan shoot-down of the $2K stimulus… plus the fact that everyone’s going to be getting a comically low $600 check after 9 months of waiting accomplish the same thing?

                    Sort of, but not to the same extent, primarily because the left doesn't "own" the $2000 checks: people think it's Trump and some ad hoc coalition.

                    That being said, even if the left would "own" the issue of the $2000 checks, it still would be worthwile to do #forcethevote, because the fight never stops. We can't show ourselves to be the better side on one issue, and leave it at that. The left needs to fight for the interests of the working class on all the fronts it can, and only in that way will it be able to organise broader sections of the population.

                • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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                  4 years ago

                  Normal people just elected Joe Biden, who said during the campaign that he'd veto M4A if it came to his desk.

                  It's a winning issue for the left, but a lot of people who like it in a vacuum aren't single-issue M4A voters. And I think the number of people it would resonate with would be low because (pick one) it's lame duck season, Trump is probably going to do something outrageous a day or two later that will drive it from the news, the news isn't going to give this wall-to-wall coverage anyways, and even people who tune in recognize it has zero chance of going anywhere.

                  • aqwxcvbnji [none/use name]
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                    4 years ago

                    Normal people just elected Joe Biden

                    Because their most important concern was getting rid of the "orange mussolini" in the white house. We weren't able to let the election centre around issues, which is what objective should be when engaging in electoralism.

                    And I think the number of people it would resonate with would be low because (pick one) it’s lame duck season, Trump is probably going to do something outrageous a day or two later that will drive it from the news, the news isn’t going to give this wall-to-wall coverage anyways, and even people who tune in recognize it has zero chance of going anywhere.

                    There will always be reasons like this. We'll never have perfect circumstances, but millions of people losing healthcare during a pandemic is very close to what I'd describe as being ideal for a vote on medicare for all.

                    That being said, Chris Hedges has this quote he uses all the time which I think is correct: "I don't fight fascism because I know I'll win, I fight fascism because it's fascism". Such an attitude should be how we approach things. Even if we lose, we should engage in the fight because it is morally just. But it's beside the point I'm making, that this is not just good policy, it's good politics. People want fighters. They hate Congress and Pelosi, they'd love someone who's sticking it to them for whatever reason. Blocking Pelosi from becoming speaker for an issue they like is just extra bonus.