Spurred from this post about The Office where I saw some back-and-forth about potential occupation-shaming(?), like why are people getting heated over being able to work?

I understand there's mental health, physical disability, learning disability, or just general lack of opportunity for some people or situations, but shouldn't everyone's drive be to contribute to society as a byproduct of participating in it?

Yeah, capitalism is fucked up, but at the end of the day, shouldn't everyone be motivated to contribute something back to earn their keep? Or can we just say "fuck it" and get mad at people who shame us for choosing not to submit to the 9 to 5?

  • Not_irony [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    I suspect that this isn't a problem, if people were allowed to live a dignified life and benefit from the fruits of their labor. I'd say like less than 10% would choose to do nothing with their lives for their entire lives.

    But for those tiny few, give them a small apartment, a basic income, food and healthcare. Maybe in a few years they'll decide to make something we'll all benefit from, or maybe not.

    We currently let billionaires exist and they do nothing (actually they do many magnitudes of negative things) for society.

    We can spare a few apartments and some food for those they would rather not work.

    Also, who decides what is work/contributing? Best just to be safe and let people live their lives in peace.

    Edit: if I'm wrong, and it's a problem, we'll figure it out then. Probably making them work a job, I don't know

    • ColonelKernel [comrade/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      I live with a roommate who lost their job with the pandemic and is utterly checked out and just wants to play video games all day. It's literally just Overwatch 12 hours a day who can afford to have zero ambition because his parents pay his rent (he's 35). He's kind of a libertarian chud too. Like what are we supposed to do with him?

      • KarlBarx [they/them,he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I feel that in an actual socialist society there would be way less of the type of just given up type. I mean look at the guy you're talking about he lost his job through no fault of their own and just kinda realizes they have no control over society and themselves so why even try. In a socialist society people would have actual control over government and workplace so they would feel ownership of it and thus actually go to work and shit.

        • ColonelKernel [comrade/them]
          ·
          4 years ago

          I guess part of it is I see my own reflection in that mirror. Like if the only "optimism" in this world is looking unto China to fulfill their pledge towards a socialist utopia by 2050... the average worker bee in China works 70 hours a week doing some thankless, redundant tasks to barely eek above the poverty line.

          In the US, we're headed towards disaster, and the idea of working the next 30 years doing menial bullshit just kinda makes me... not wanna participate.

            • ColonelKernel [comrade/them]
              ·
              4 years ago

              I think if you took a cross-section of average Americans working 60 hrs a week versus Chinese citizens working 70 hours a week, there would be a chasm of difference in QOL/opportunity.

          • KarlBarx [they/them,he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Of course. But the idea is to use that menial money to fund the organization which will emancipate us. Even to be honest the idea of social democracy is something that seems just as hard to achieve in the US as communism so might as well go all the way.

      • Dirt_Owl [comrade/them, they/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Sounds like he's probably depressed and needs the spark put back in his life. Therapy and emotional support would probably be a good start.

        Most people, when they are happy and healthy, will want to 'give back'.

      • ToastGhost [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Find him a productive hobby. Right before covid really blew up I quit a job that was absolutely destroying me mentally, I was like that for about a month but then made a hobby of clearing fallen branches and dead trees from the woods behind my house. Since then, whenever im out of work, I end up doing it again within a week, about when my exhaustion from capitalist exploitation wears off. I dont do it every day, and when I do I dont do it all day, but its roughly what should be the communist's ideal work week. I only found this hobby by chance, I very well could have gone on doing nothing until I ended up employed again. In a society where needs are met by communicating those needs to everyone, and voluntarily working to meet those needs, it would be much easier to find something you can do to be productive that you can also enjoy.