So I've found myself really having a lot of resentment building up recently against my fellow USian citizens. It's a very weird combination of genuine care + love for my working class future comrades, and serious anger with the way they think and behave.
I really want to avoid being the elitist intellectual asshole, but at the same time it is just so disgusting watching people not care about real issues, dismiss things, and just lack understanding or the effort to try. Just today I had a friend ask me sarcastically "so what's the news today, comrade?" and I responded with the Joe Biden story about how he's funding the fucking southern border wall. They acknowledged that it was bad for like 3 seconds and then said something along the lines of "Biden's going to do what he's gonna do, but I still get to go home and do X enjoyable thing tonight. We all woke up this morning. That's good news!" He then turned to my other friend and started talking about rep clothes they buy, like it didn't even phase him. Like he needed some distraction.
While I appreciate the sentiment as I've obviously been having a rough few months and he's trying to keep things positive, he has a long history of this even before my struggles. Constant disengagement with serious topics and overall apathy for making positive change. They all make fun of me for being educated on what's going on in the world and being a communist, as if either of those are bad things. They're frankly pretty ignorant when it comes to real world things. I'll reveal my age here (I probably already have anyways) but these are legal adults, granted some just turned 18 this year, doing this shit. And I don't know how to feel about it.
I should make a distinction here. I completely understand that many people's material reality prevents them from being educated on the matter or are simply too tired from being worked like a dog to develop critical thoughts + be exposed to good ideas about the system. But this is not the case with these idiots and most of my city at the moment. We are a relatively well off community with plenty of free time and are university-age. I constantly bring up absolutely abhorrent things that happen in society and they are just unaffected. They bathe in their relative privilege and can't understand that not everyone gets to just go home and play Minecraft under this system. They can't seem to demonstrate an understanding that things have real impacts on people's lives, because to them, status quo has been just fine under either/both party's rule.
The other day he talked about "I can't believe people have REAL BEEF over politics bro that's so crazy." I looked at him like he had 3 eyes while my blood boiled. This is how these people think. Like politics is some separate entity or a video game. I tried to explain that I'm not going to associate with someone who's blatantly racist or anti-LGBTQ+ and supports a party/system that has those mindsets.
Basically this ranty post is just asking what the fuck Americans who aren't politically aware think about, and how they do it? How do these people know the planet is being blown up for the sake of profit and do fuck all? Know that the global south is in unfathomable poverty because of us and not care? Know people IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY are in unfathomable poverty and go back to consumerist bullshit? Are they stupid? What the fuck are they thinking?
This is where you come in if you made it this far. Calm me down and let me know if I'm being elitist. Validate me in some way if I'm right in any way. I feel so surrounded by lunacy. Lunacy I tell you.
Sorry for typing so much lmao
that's not elitism, it's a basic level of compassion toward those you don't personally know and outrage at the apparent amorality of the people around you; they're still young and will hopefully grow out of it (possibly with some help from you, but you have to prioritize your own mental health), but a steady diet of propaganda and relatively good material conditions tend to lead to this kind of attitude
"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine."
-- smart Argentinian manI noticed this as well, usually they reply with something along the lines of 'Worlds gonna keep spinning, nothing you can do'. Usually I try to see how the system affects them negatively day-to-day (e.g job hate, student debt), then expand from there.
Learned helplessness is surprisingly common in the "land of freedom"
This reminds me of a podcast about how capitalist culture makes us feel ashamed for complaining. https://littleredschoolhouse.libsyn.com/61-how-capitalism-distorts-our-feelings
It's a coping mechanism on their part.
At some level they know that if they engage with politics like you do, and acknowledge and learn the things you learn, they'll end up like you. So they don't. They protect the narrative that lets them chill in ignorance, even if your talks with them make them aware that they're embracing self-deception. Why?
They can see how angry and frustrated you are, and how little there is you can do to change anything. And they don't want to give up the comfort of being dumb fucking liberals for that.
So thing is, you've got to be chill about your passions. No you're not elitist, you're angry and impassioned. Don't make being a communist look like the most frustrating miserable option available to an American. Lower your expectation of how much difference you'll individually make and let the pressure off. The reality is, where you are in the world, you can't do much more than educate and spread class consciousness, and trying to do more will sabotage your ability to do even that. Keep your cool when liberals open their mouths, ask questions that lead them to their contradictions.
Don't judge yourself as a communist by your results - you'll frustrate yourself. Judge yourself by the work you put in towards those results.
Don’t make being a communist look like the most frustrating miserable option available to an American.
I think I do that well. Most people around me probably think I’m mostly in it for the memes.
This sounds like a really good tip! I need to work on this myself.
I not caring is a coping mechanism for the knowledge that no one in the system actually cares what they think
I feel this argument hard and literally was having the conversation with my partner like 10 minutes before opening up this post lol. That being said, I'm in my 30's. When I was that age, even at 18, I was a fucking shithead.
story time: I knew ultimately that I was anti-Republican (I considered myself a punk and that really helped to send me on a leftist trajectory, along with experiences with shitty cops at a very young age. Was told to never snitch when I was like 6.). But, I still had awful, racist, and just uneducated takes. I was pretty close to a straight A student, as well. What helped me become more radicalized was eventually being required to take an African American film class at my community college. I had to watch Birth of the Nation, and that woke me up a bit and made me want to dig into why I thought the way I did. I was lucky enough to go to university and minor in Latin American studies, and those classes blew the roof off for me. I pushed myself HARD to undo a lot of my fragile white beliefs and it paid off, and I just radicalized further from there. Now it's taken me while but I'm about to start reading a ton of theory.
Y'all are still very young. It's fucking awesome that you seem to have the political consciousness that you do at your age, I'm jealous. I don't think it's very uncommon for people fresh out of highschool to still be asleep politically. Frustrating as it is, I think young adulthood is such a pivotal moment where a lot can change about a person's identity, so trying to continually have those conversations if you have the bandwidth is SO IMPORTANT. Learn about homelessness in the US and people's stories. He talks about how his life is good, but maybe learning about how that can change on a dime might resonate more than thinking about these things that are often so far removed from our immediate reality. Trying to reach these people before they become full on Chuds is fucking praxis and can be some of the most important work you can do!
I really feel this, I'm a bit older and me and my friend group are all a relatively privilaged part of society because there still is a thriving job market for us. I try to wake them up and show to them everything that is horrible about liberal capitalism and how we're not even remotely living a democracy, but the western bias goes too deep for most of it to come through.
I still try nevertheless, and now and then I get them to critisize the system themselves, though none of them is keen on communism, anarchism or changing the status quo in any meaningful way.
“Biden’s going to do what he’s gonna do, but I still get to go home and do X enjoyable thing tonight. We all woke up this morning. That’s good news!”
Brain melting. These are the same people who spent over half a decade screaming and crying and shitting themselves over how bad the Orange Man is. What do they even dislike about him? The mean tweets? I spit on these fucking spineless cowards.
These are people who don't pay attention to politics because they don't need to. All they need to do to satisfy themselves is virtue signal about how bad racism is, apparently by voting for the man who enacts the very white supremacist policies of the man they claim to despise. "Vote blue no matter who" is nothing but a free cult of loyal followers for every person with a D next to their name. Democrats have been grifting these hogs' anti-Trump hysteria for way too long. It's poisoning their brains.
You are not an elitist, and you need not drag yourself down to the lowest common denominator.
I don't think you're an elitist.
(and here I will be an elitist...maybe?) I do think you've missed a red flag though. Your friend, assuming this conversational quote is mostly or fully accurate, just explained to you their material reality and essentially just said, through some extrapolation, "material conditions elsewhere are bad. But my material conditions are still good." I assume you're a Marxist of some flavoring being here and all. So, there you have it. You as a class conscious person recognize that while materially things are still decent on average in the US (again, on average), things are incredibly "not good" elsewhere in the world and you know which country is largely responsible for that being the case: Your own.
Your friend, being willfully ignorant, a coping strategy but also a luxury afforded by all material needs being met, something nearly all Americans suffer from, just some of us are conscious of it and most of us are not, lacks the historical context perhaps beyond a vague "we did something bad a long time ago" and, furthermore, realizes the reality that we are effectively powerless at the moment. In their mind, maybe even consciously, I can't say, they probably think of you as the weirdo or crazy to some degree because you sit around thinking about and fretting about things that we all objectively know we cannot change. I'm not trying to be, you know, doomer, or fatalistic, or whatever, but it's simple reality that what the friend said "Biden's going to do what he's gonna do" is absolutely true. None of us here can stop that no matter what individual actions we take, even the most extreme ones. It would take a whole country's army to stop Biden from doing what he wants to do if he wants it that bad. We all know we can't change shit, some of us feel bad, and really at the end of things those of us who are conscious of things are the ones suffering for it. But only until you accept the reality of things and you understand why your friend can toss off such bad news so easily.
I think, broadly, you agree with me here. Maybe not on the powerlessness towards current US politics, but, as much as it sucks, I'd... invite you to explore that line of thought more. It's honestly the only way out of this type of despair and alienation you're experiencing. You either have to change everyone else or you have to learn to live with them somehow and, luckily, you already know the answer, although you don't like the answer. Neither do I or anyone else who wishes to see more justice and equity in the world, but I don't know what else to say than you just gotta accept that the same way worsening material conditions causes people to veer towards socialism or fascism, depending on their temperament and education and, of course, perceived class position, improving material conditions causes this sort of de-radicalization or "de-politicization" where people consciously and subconsciously refuse to see the plight of others and, more importantly, absolutely will refuse to do anything that might actually improve others' material conditions because, in their mind, it might worsen their own. The classic story that plays out daily.
I understand you're ranting, but I do find myself wanting to ask "what else would you have them do?" Acknowledge things are shitty elsewhere including in the US? Not play Minecraft? I'm not trying to be an asshole here, I'm being completely serious, what else should they do? And how does that compare with what you do? Again, gotta keep saying, I am absolutely not trying to be an asshole here or say "make your bed" or whatever the hell. I'm just saying, you're laying down a lot of, I dunno, accusations? Maybe? I can't think of a better word for it.
My interpretation of that rant, and rants aren't always logical nor representative of true feelings, so, this is just me kinda riffing on what it written there, is basically, worst-faith nutshell "Why are you enjoying yourselves while others suffer?" (And I'm talking about acceptable enjoyment, not like racism, homophobia, etc. just to be crystal clear. I mean playing games, seeing a movie, etc.)
I think that's a perfectly valid question, if that's your intention. And I'd say they already answered it for you previously in your own rant. "Biden’s going to do what he’s gonna do". I guess the real question is, and I provided my non-unique analysis already, why can't you enjoy things? And, again, I already answered why I think you can't. You don't seem to have to accepted that your friend is ultimately correct as shitty and terrible as that feels.
"Biden’s going to do what he’s gonna do." I keep quoting that because it's actually a perfect encapsulation of a lack of class consciousness and lack of education on material reality, but also, it's the answer to socialists, Marxists, etc. in similar veins living under a capitalist system. It's an acceptance that shit sucks, it's going to continue sucking for the current moment and likely many more moments ie beyond our lifetimes. The only way to settle this is through a balanced mixture of acceptance of reality (neither of us, or even 10000 of us together, can change the current system) and figuring out what you can do, within your own power, to push the needle the tiniest amount that you individually can. You have to accept first and foremost, this probably won't benefit you. You probably won't live to see a glorious collapse of the US and takeover of socialism. But, maybe? The point is you have to kind of... not care. Yeah, that's really easy, I know (sarcasm). I say this stuff and I'm not even fully at this magical stage in life, although I do believe I've come to the better end of it after years of suffering much like you are with right-wing parents, friends, coworkers, etc. that seemingly do not care. I bashed my head on that metaphorical wall for literally years. All I can say is, you kinda just gotta... let go. That sucks, I know, everyone knows. But what else is there? You either compromise in your own mind and decide on a plan of realistic praxis that you can personally engage in, or, what else? Suffer everyday until your brain fuses together into a solid rock and you go numb or, worse, find yourself becoming a cynical ex-Marxist right winger? That sounds shitty. I took the compromise route.
It's not easy, it fucking sucks actually, but what else can you do in the moment? If there is something that you, or I, or anyone, can do right now to stop Biden from putting kids in cages at the border I legitimately want to know so I can offer aid to it. But we both know, I hope, that we quite literally cannot stop it from happening. That fucking suuuuuucks. I am not saying, and would never advocate for, letting that rage inside die. You have to keep that indignant righteous anger that, in my opinion, is a completely natural human trait to have and feel. That's why they spend so much time and energy trying to break people's minds. But, hey, you made it here as a person living in the imperial core of the greatest, most hyper-capitalist country on earth. You have every incentive to turn your mind off to the plight of others, but you don't. That should and does say something about your character. (Little self-jerk there; we deserve it).
This shit sucks because it just goes in a circle of misery. You realize you can't change things, but you realize you are unfairly benefiting, you can't stop that because the entire capitalist society you live in was created to benefit you via the exploitation of others, you either physically remove yourself (a commune or move to a socialist country) or you go back to the beginning of the circle where you consider "how do I change this?" "Fuck, I can't" "Fuck, I'm benefiting still." "Fuck, this was all created for me to be benefited." "Fuck, I can't just leave nor do I want to." "Fuck, how do I change this?" On and on and on for years. Maybe it never ends, I dunno. All I can say is, I dunno, take up jogging/running if you are physically able. Some sort of cardio. Same for weightlifting if you can. Focus on your physical and mental health. Whatever extra you have on the other end put into something you find worthwhile. That might mean direct action of some sort which, to be clear, is absolutely not the solution, but it is a temporary relief to those who are helped, and that is something. I bet if you join in some community (or nearby) activities like helping with homeless people or whatever else you'll meet some like minded people. Maybe they won't know or care as much about Marxism, but ok, maybe you introduce it to them. I dunno. You just gotta pick out the things you can do that will help now and also push the needle slightly.
Apologies if this comes off as patronizing, etc. I felt like the entire thing was required for me to work out all my thoughts here. I could always keep typing, but, you know. Also, never apologize for long posts. I certainly don't. (Do not look at my post history and average post lengths)
I’m glad I stopped reading and checked the length. That is quite the write up. I will have to read it tomorrow.
I like effort posts like this, but I think it’s probably best to break it up into sections with spoilers to make it easier for people to read
Soon I'll just start releasing downloadable .epubs and .pdfs.
I actually literally had to cut out part of it because of length (I think. the error was unclear, but when I deleted some portions that were just quoting the source it posted right away.)
Yes you probably did, there is a character limit i believe. Ngl i’d burst out laughing if I saw a comment just drop a pdf as their response please do that at least once
That'll have to be my posting magnum opus and then the mods gotta delete my account
I largely agree with this, but it’s a little overly pessimistic. Don’t expect your bougie friends to care, but don’t stop mentioning the problems of the world. I’m pretty comfortable and still care, but a lot of people may just plug their ears and stay in their bubble. There’s no point in suffering on behalf of others. It’s possible to care, but not be angry all the time. Maybe I’m just numb. Focus on what you actually can do, educate, agitate, and organize. You’re not going to stop anything Biden’s doing tomorrow, but you can bring socialism closer and bring up those around you.
To address where I disagree, things are changing fast and I honestly believe most of the world will have to be socialist in my lifetime (assuming I don’t die young), if humanity is not going to go extinct. The US does not have much longer before it will be Balkanized or whatever will happen. I have “pessimism of the mind, optimism of the will” in that I see the dire situation but I can’t accept that there will be no future. I must fight because that’s the only way I can see a real future happening. There is not a binary between consciousness and apathy. We can see the ills of the world and still be stoic about and use it to compel us to action. Also, 10,000 well disciplined and organized people could do a lot of good work.
Yes, I totally agree with you. It's just hard to articulate because you have to sort of be of two minds at all times. Or switching between them maybe.
If you're always "on" you will burn out. If you're always in a mindset of "focus on enjoyment. Make my life less depressing" then you're just the same as all the people who are ignorant willfully or not. It's a "pick your battles" thing, I suppose. It's a "know what is realistic and push where you can push" thing. It's all fundamentally a compromise, which sucks, but there's really no alternative currently.
And on the future of the world/US, I'm just observing it from where we are now which is basically at a standstill. It will break at some point, and none of us know when or how it will happen. I'm just remembering that Lenin quote about weeks and decades and just here for the ride until then...
I don’t find myself making such a compromise. I can learn more and more sickening things and just get more interested and a bit in awe. I feel a bit of indignation, but not real frustration or burnout. Basically hate reading/watching. More pleasurable than desperate. Of course it depends wether it will make me feel more optimism or pessimism. I’m reminded of the part of ‘We are the Weather’ where a bunch of facts are laid out about the direness of climate change and it’s kind of fun to read, but the author recognizes this. There is a “fight your battles” thing, but mostly so people don’t think I’m totally annoying or insensitive. There’s definitely some people im more willing to spend my time trying to convince than others. I usually keep a shitposty, but convicted attitude rather than that of desperation.
I’m just observing it from where we are now which is basically at a standstill.
Have you been watching what’s happening? US sanctions don’t work anymore. Major powers have decided to circumvent them. Russia and China are working with the DPRK, Syria, and Venezuela. The US financial system is on the verge of collapse.
I’m just remembering that Lenin quote about weeks and decades and just here for the ride until then…
We are in the those weeks that feel like decades and things are only speeding up. We can’t just wait around for a revolutionary situation. We need to organize and strategize so we can take advantage when the time is right.
I can totally relate. There are a lot of petite bourgeois kids at my school who don’t care to learn about the world. I know someone who’s single mom can afford to be a NEET. I know a kid who gets payed 60$ an hour acting. There’s a lot of political apathy around me. Fortunately, most of the people who are interested in politics are left-libs or some kind of leftist. However a lot of people just joke about me being a commie and everything I say having to do with my ideology. I heard one kid the other day say they hated communists and vegans not because he’s ideologically against us, just because we’re annoying and try to push knowledge and action on to other people to change stuff.
Edit: My friends’ discord server almost banned me for posting 9/11 memes and made a rule that no politics is allowed. I tried to appeal that everything is political, it would be stupid because some members had liked my memes before and people could just ignore them, but one person just kept spamming stfu and acting like I was being the most offensive anyone could possibly be. I had to apologize (for not stopping speaking facts because it made people uncomfortable) eventually got the rule kind of changed, but they still want to limit politics as much as possible. I posted a anti-Israel meme recently and the mod said to remove it because no political propaganda was allowed. Little do they know my main purpose to be on that server is consciously political propaganda, so I toned it down but continue to post memes from communist discord servers.
Another reason why I feel similarly and kind of elitist is that I support the liberation of the proletariat in theory, but the imperfection (humanness) of people is weird see irl. This combines with social anxiety to make me worried about actually approaching people and organizing. Does anyone have tips with combatting internal misanthropy? I already do loving kindness meditation sometimes and try to work on social skills, but does anyone have more advice? I’ve thought about making a whole post on this before, but ive taken the chance to write my thoughts out here.
this is by design, comfort brings complacency. i experience this as well to a lesser degree, some of my friends act this way and it is frustrating, but i understand why. Not everyone wants to feel this anguished all of the time because this horrible stuff happens all of the time. like most everything, we can't really change it.
I'll try to be as concise as I can, no promises though.
So in the first hand your anger is actually to the engines of the system, the way your friends think is consequence of said system, to think that their way of thinking is cruel is to put on their hands a lot of the syatem's blame. Because thinking like us is hard causes some isolation, sadness frustration, so even people who kinda stumble with this way of thinking are highly disincentivised of engaging with it, and conforming to the social norm is so freaking comforting, that is no wonder that they prefer that.
So secondly I'd say that if you have friends that don't hate you for being a communist, that's already a lot, and you need friends and personal connections and not everything should be about furthering the revolution sometimes having fun about dumb shit is not just nice, but actually necessary, so I'd recommend to focus on the common ground you have with your friends, enjoy their company and if and when one of them expresses sincere curiosity and/or interest in what you believe you talk things over and show why you don't like this and like that, but be very aware that they will most likely then not take a lot of misinformation as fact about communism and capitalism, so sometimes making a single tiny point and showing, kindly, all the reasons you believe in it (contesting the misinformation and mentioning your sources, Dessalines is your friend here) might be better than covering a large range of subjects, of which most of them they'll have reasons to distrust it because of misinformation.
So about being concise, not that sucessful, but I hope I helped.
repeatedly mentions “the system”
doesn’t mention capitalism
Sounds like someone’s been reading industrial society and its future…
/j
I kinda mean capitalism or the systems it creates to shape ideas and society, my focus was on the fact that the issue is much bigger then the people around our comrade rather than making an accurate analysis of the actual responsibles are for the fenomenon
Honestly, understanding that people have a limited capacity for depressing politics and news cycles, I have more compassion for people who are disengaged rather than liberals who pretend to care and have strong progressive opinions but then fall asleep after every general election.
Next year I will have to work really hard not to be aggressively ugly to any "progressive" trying to gaslight me into voting for Biden by using Latino/Trans/Women/BlackPeople as rhetorical pawns.
I got one friend that did the same. I would just say something positively that a socialists country/person did.
Like how great it is that China got so many people out of poverty or how great it is that Havana is capable of growing a majority of all the vegetables and fruits that it's citizens require.
After some time he would stop asking because he couldn't stand that they are actively trying to better the life's of its people and are achieving so many great stuff.