a bunch of redditors will take down an extremely adaptable economic system that has survived multiple global wars, vast inequality, inconceivable changes in technology, and a concerted 200 year effort to overthrow it
:doubt:
an extremely adaptable economic system that has survived multiple global wars, vast inequality, inconceivable changes in technology, and a concerted 200 year effort to overthrow it
An economic system that shits its guts out every 10 years because of something stupid exactly like this
And those crises always invariably increase inequality and hurt working people. Capitalism itself has always survived. Unless you’re arguing that the WSB crew are accelerationists of some kind?
They are not "accelerationists", they are forcing major banks to owe them a shit ton of money through an infinity squeeze. Their ideology does not matter, material reality does.
And the material reality is that they're organizing and buying through private corporations who are already taking steps to shut them down. If it get's anywhere close to materially damaging banks long-term, the forces of capital will unite to stop WSB. The Biden admin will step in to stop it.
I'm all for WSB people paying off their student debts or making a buck off this magic scenario, but you're not gonna beat capitalists by out-capitalisting them.
buying through private corporations who are already taking steps to shut them down
If legal stock brokers steal peoples' investments, that is going to cause a lot of problems. That's a pandora's box of legality and public outrage that I doubt will happen. If they could get away with that, the 2008 housing short would never have happened.
If it get’s anywhere close to materially damaging banks long-term, the forces of capital will unite to stop WSB.
Sure, that doesn't mean they can close pandora's box back easily. The Great Recession took years for the financial world to recover. And now, the US population is much more organized to oppose the state. An "Occupy Wall Street" pt. 2 will look a lot different than last time.
Yea they're definitely an accelerating force. Crashing the stock market for a joke wasn't ok and all that
An economic system that survives shitting its guts out every 10 years because of something stupid exactly like this.
There is going to be a terminal crisis in profitability that capitalism will not be able to withstand - without changing to socialism or a neo-feudalism. Is it going to be from the gme bubble? Who the fuck knows, lol, the global 2009 financial crisis started because some people missed a few payments on their mortgages, the 1929 and subsequent 1930s depression started because a few traders missed their margin calls.
Capitalism doesnt survive, without changing, these big crises. The 19th century long depression ushered in a wave of imperialism that culminated in the scramble for Africa. The 30s depression ushered in new deal style social democracy, the 70s crisis of profitability ushered in neoliberalism. The 2009 crisis was averted just enough to not change the underlying logic of neoliberalism but between covid and the potential for wall street to collapse (the one place that has survived decently so far), neoliberal capitalism will die off too. What could replace it? Imperialism is global, the working class in the west is asleep and now precarious, the public goods are mostly privatized. What's left to extract profit from? The nearest I could see is moving to UBI and MMT, but if neoliberalism is the body of capitalism eating itself, UBI and infinite debt is the dmt vision we get before dieing completely.
The 2009 crisis was averted just enough to not change the underlying logic of neoliberalism
idk that the underlying logic changed, but they definitely didn't waste that crisis in bringing back unlimited money for robber barons, and that difference isn't insignificant. without 09 I doubt we get uber, wework, etc.
Yeah, it only seems "obvious" in hindsight now. Like, given how hard neoliberalism pushes to eliminate unionization and crush any level of worker privileges... they'd have to bring back the 30s work line (where you'd be unemployed standing in a line at a factory and when someone died from the unsafe work they'd just pull someone else from the line) but in the 21st century it would have to be dressed up as a fun little app with bright colors and the fisher price aesthetic of adult lives.
An economic system that shits its guts out every 10 years
That's by design. Capitalists can't make gains without people losing everything, so if you have a disaster-like scenario built into your economic system then billionaires can plan around it.
I’ll admit I was being melodramatic for effect, but I’m definitely in the “I’ll believe it when I see it” camp on this one. Maybe it’s because I’m not at all involved in the stock trading world, but I find it hard to get as agitated about this as I was during the uprisings last year. To me that was a much more visceral confrontation between ordinary people and the powers that be than a bunch of imaginary numbers being shuffled around.
To me that was a much more visceral confrontation between ordinary people and the powers that be than a bunch of imaginary numbers being shuffled around.
I think a lot of folks think that only happened because those folks were rabble rousers and were stepping out of line, basically.
Meanwhile, this is people doing capitalism within capitalism like you're supposed to do and when they got an edge by playing within the rules of the system (unlike the rabble rousers!) the system still stepped up and said "no."
I think it's different in that regard and will radicalized people who weren't before. But yeah this probably isn't sparking the revolution.
It probably won't, but wouldn't it be hilarious if it did?
Yeah it did all those things when it was young and full of possibilities for exploitation, but that isn't the same material conditions anymore. The soda machine is running out of syrup as Matt put it.
People have been saying that for as long as capitalism has existed, lol. Smarter people than Matt christman. Lenin and most of the Bolsheviks thought the world was on the verge of socialist revolution and that they were just the tip of the spear.
But yes it does seem like the contradictions will spiral out of control in our lifetime. Climate change alone assures that.
Yeah but the capital that was accumulated was destroyed by war. Unless we manage to have a world war without nukes the contradictions are unstoppable
You'll forgive me for reflexively noping-the-fuck-out when a mystery dipshit tells me to buy silver
The illusion of legitimacy of the stock market is shattered no matter which way this thing goes. I hope regular people don't lose their hats but this is undoubtedly a good thing.
They will literally send people to murder every single fucking redditor
JPM is going to solve racism?
I hope regular people don’t lose their hats
if this actually tanks the market as a whole, regular people are definitely losing their hats
There's really nothing any of us can do about it to be honest so I'm just gonna enjoy the accidental accelerationism. I would never tell anyone to get into the market.
same but in this hellstate unless you work for the guvmint you have to
sorry but anybody who sits around trading stocks all day is not the common folk.
Just because you have access to their forums and maybe you even threw your stimulus into the position they've been telling you about, doesn't mean it's suddenly revolutionary. Investing has always worked this way. it was always 99% of the participants regular folk, 99% of money the whales.
You are doing finance capitalism a favor by clearing out firms who don't know how to math stocks properly.
I'm not telling you not to try to make money, but this isn't anti capitalistic in any way.
this is a revolt, not a revolution. every single one of those wallstreetbets folks will just become of the capital class, but maybe nice about it. like, pay off some of the debt for their families. unless organizing takes place, and soon, we'll just trade old money for a few redditors
WSB is like 5% of the GME holders, assuming any of them are realised, the rest are other hedge funds like Blackrock, lmao
trillionaires squeezing money out of billionaires that get bailed out anyway are the vanguard of the revolution
:PIGPOOPBALLS:
but make sure to buy iraqi dinars that's totally gonna fuck jp morgan trust me bro
They simply won’t allow it to happen. The trading apps will just freeze people out from doing this before anything really bad can happen.
It’s a casino and the house makes the rules don’t forget.
I can’t believe how many fucking brain dead takes i keep reading about how “guysss you know the working class investors are gonna get owned the worst!” And it’s just so ignorant of the material reality at hand here. A ton of redditors just caught Wall Street by the short hairs and are inviting all of us to take them for a fucking ride! This is huge! We have to help these people!
With regard to GME that's partly true in that Melvin or whoever will suffer but Blackrock Capital has made billions on this, so while a small "big fish" gets fucked an even bigger one eats well.
But also this entire phenomenon isn't just about GME and ultimately when those other bubbles pop, who's going to be left holding those stocks and taking those losses?
Again, do the DD. They have to either majorly change the rules of the games, which could cost some of these people, but is just as well for us as a radicalizing opportunity. Or they have to just eat some of their own and let some of these people get paid. And again, everyone doing this did it as a BET. They know they’re gambling, what is so fucking hard about that for us to understand about that? I’ve never seen so many leftists be so fucking concerned about fake money.
Are you still talking about just GME? Like I said, this entire phenomenon is not just relegated to GME, people have bought into other stocks because of this hype, stocks for which the unique circumstances of GME do not apply.
Not that the GME play is risk-free, either.
I’ve never seen so many leftists be so fucking concerned about fake money.
Are you conflating "the line" which is bullshit with the absolutely very fucking real money that people are putting into this?
Yes because i understand and as do the people who are doing this that their “very real fucking money” is gone as soon as it’s out of their account and isn’t real money again until its back.
The idea that this is somehow going to amount to a massive loss for most of these retail investors is something I am extremely dubious of. Also, Is that really so bad? Do you really think a significant number of these people will be homeless overnight if this goes bad for them? Shouldn’t we as leftist see that as an opportunity too? Couldn’t that be just another great opportunity to heighten the class consciousness and bring people into the struggle?
But more importantly, if that’s true and there are a significant number of people at risk here, do YOU have a better idea for tanking the stock market and exposing the contradictions of capitalism? Do you YOU have a better line of attack that can be coordinated remotely? Do YOU have a better idea to wrest some of this Ill gotten wealth away from these fucking people? Do YOU have a better idea for creating class consciousness through the internet on a scale like this? Do YOU have something better worth risking it all for?
If not then maybe try adding something positive to the discussion here. Obviously there are other stocks than just GME but just because you know that does not make you informed on the situation nor does it make your analysis helpful when you have clearly given this whole situation a cursory glance and just decided nothing good can ever happen in the world because capitalism.
Lmao holy shit, this is c/copypasta material.
My only point here is that some regular folks are in fact gonna get fucked in all this, a point that you seemed to be downplaying. I don't know what you're going off about but please continue.
I’m not downplaying anything I’m saying your point is idiotic. I’ve been saying that to everyone else making the same point. It just completely misses the point of what’s going on here if In favor of some faux dialectic twitter brain where being left wing is just about expressing enough concern about the right people. Also yeah wasn’t expecting a particularly insightful response from you so by all means make me a copy pasta that would rock.
I don’t know why you have this much of a problem with someone acknowledging the reality that yes actually some normal people will lose money in all of this.
Because normal people are so uniformly immiserated right now that this feels like a pointlessly pedantic thing to point out. It’s truly the least important thing to take out of this historic moment IMO.
Just feels like you’re morally signaling yourself to be more be “left” than me because you care about these people potentially losing money and I’m trying to get you to wake up and find something more positive to take out of this.
I’m sick of all the negativity around this and I don’t understand what it accomplishes. Losses are a well understood part of participating in WSB. It’s just super patronizing to me to assume these people don’t know what they’re doing and won’t be able to find a way to benefit from this.
And yes some of them will lose out, but if you believe that’s the most important thing to think about here then go find those people and radicalize them when that time comes. Stop hemming and hawing about these potential losses before anything is even over.
Losses are a well understood part of participating in WSB. It’s just super patronizing to me to assume these people don’t know what they’re doing and won’t be able to find a way to benefit from this.
What about the new, inexperienced people roped into this by the hype? This is bigger than the WSB subreddit.
Also I'm not doing any of that nonsense you've accused me of, I've only pointed out that this thing isn't entirely sunshine and rainbows.
Teach them what a stop loss order is! And also teach them about gambling responsibly! And if you don’t know how to do either thing then log off and stop concerning yourself with the financial fate of a relatively small portion of a community that is centered around being financially reckless! Stop being whiny and try and make people feel more confident about holding until these fucks are bled dry! And if you can’t do that then what exactly are you contributing here with these concerns?? If you’re right, go do something about it, you can figure out what. If everyone holds melvin capital will fucking lose! And there’s more targets coming up. You decide what’s worth risking it all for just like the people you’re supposedly so concerned with. I trust their judgement much more than yours Rn.
I trust their judgement much more than yours Rn.
Lol okay buddy. Have fun.
The best thing to come out of this is the narrative around it. But the reality of it is very different.
Based on historical precedent, I'm going to guess that the narrative will be co-opted to say "this shows how the people have power. the system works!" and consent will be manufactured as per usual. Nothing will fundamentally change, and people will continue to post about it on LateStageCapitalism and WhitePeopleTwitter for years to come, but no one outside reddit will remember or care.
A few hedge funds will crash, and a few more will make a lot of money at their expense (like the South Korean fund that cashed out today.)
A number of retail investors will be able to pay rent this month. A few wsb investor bros will never have to work again.
So uh. Someone that knows. Is this possible? I feel like I didn't think GME was possible and missed out on like thousands of dollars at this point. Happy to try this if its possible
There’s also the other side of this – the price has been kept artificially low for YEARS.
as pointed out at the top, silver and gold hype has bee artificially high for YEARS from the ron paul crowd
but I also bought a couple shares of the blackrock slv thing cause fuck it gambling is fun
just don't buy iraqi dinars and don't buy physical silver that you put in a shoebox under your bed
I know very little about this stuff but I think things are way too risky to get in at this point. One way or another shit is gonna hit the fan.
Someone posted yesterday that once you see articles about a certain investment its already too late to get in on it and I think that's almost always true.
If you really wanna get in, only put money you don’t care about never seeing again. Be it 20 or 200 dollars whatever. A good rule of thumb is when CNBC has articles about it, it’s too late to really invest. This might be different but I’m not that confident.
I already cashed out some of my gamestop money, so the next one is $SLV, the iShares Silver Trust? I'm thinking of putting a few bucks in, its literally a precious metal it can't fall that much
Upside too is that metals go up if the market fails and everyone knows we’re in a bubble.
If WSB makes bank on GME and then rolls over their earnings into SLV next week, WSB will bankrupt an actual bank
Holy shit i'm gonna cum
:hillgasm:
edit: I'm seeing that wsb's stake is comparatively small so this situation is unlikely to occur. It was cathartic to think about though
