Liberal idpol only serves the interests of the bourgeois members of the oppressive communities it professes to “help”.

You cannot be “for the gays” if you make the lives of the homeless worse. LGBTQ are significantly over-represented when it comes to experiencing homelessness and facing other associated dangers like sexual abuse, drug abuse etc.

This is a trend present in all aspects of society - social oppression of all kinds (sexual, gender, racial, religious) is worse for the economically downtrodden (which are the vast majority) and this obfuscation of the class dynamic only helps the already most well-off in those communities.

Class reductionism definitely exists and it’s wrong - social problems won’t disappear even if economic inequality does. But ending the class struggle will help 90% of the socially oppressed unlike liberal idpol which only helps the affluent (in any material way).

PS - As I was writing this, I had a realisation of what this looks like in practice. China is a socially conservative country - the media is more heteronormative, patriarchal etc. than the American one (which itself wasn’t anything great a decade ago). But over the past 20ish years, the real wages of people in China has gone up 4-5 times. I’m willing to bet that this has improved the lives of all kinds of minorities in China far more than American idpol has.

  • Pezevenk [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    @Pezevenk makes the point about domestic abuse rates but when i googled domestic abuse rates US and Russia were similar at about 1 in 4 for women

    Except domestic abuse is actually treated as completely more normal in Russia in much greater rates so they are never reported. It is literally not even illegal. Google wife killing rates.

    @Pezevenk also made the point about LGBT rights and sure LGBT rights are better in Germany or France…But those societies are part of NATO and have murdered hundreds of thousands of people across the ME in the last 2 decades.

    What does that have to do with the acceptance of LGBTQ+ within these societies compared to Russia? I never said they should be celebrated, both countries can just sink as far as I'm concerned. But that doesn't mean they aren't more tolerant of LGBTQ+ people. As a bisexual person I know that if I was in Iran forced gender conversion would be the good case scenario. But if the EU attacked Iran because Macron got pissy or whatever the fuck I'd side with Iran no questions asked, just like I side with Palestine over Israel. It doesn't mean I don't recognize that gay rights over there are atrocious, and that they are much better in the EU. But it's not the only important thing in the world. You are presenting two completely different issues. It's completely incoherent to claim that a society is more or less patriarchal depending on how many people they've killed for whatever reason. By that yardstick then I guess the US is both an extremely antifeminist society because of all the women they have killed but also an extremely feminist country because of all the abusers and rapists that they also accidentally killed as well.

    • JoeySteel [comrade/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Even your two examples here are not tainted by the blood thirsty west: who knows what Russian society would look like without the Wests support for Yeltsin (and the subsequent looting of Russia) or the coup of Irans democracy in 53

      Iran probably wouldnt have retreated in theocracy and with Russia the subsequent mass death brought on from shock privatisation probably wouldnt have brought on the masses demanding the return of the Church as a pillar of the state and strong conservatism and machismo culture your(read homophobic)

      My point was the West spreads barbarism across the globe then smells their own farts over Idpol shit like lighting their Mi6 up in rainbow colours whilst they finance jihadis in Syria

      • Pezevenk [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Right but you realise you are now arguing for a completely different position. You started off saying Russia is a far less patriarchal society. Now your position is that is the fault of the west that it is like that. Like, I'm not 100% comfortable with assigning every bad thing that can happen to any country ever as the singular fault of Americans as if there is nothing internal going on and the rest of the world is just mindless pawns of the US with no agency but you are mostly right in that. But again, it's not what anyone here was arguing about. It's like you are always trying to convince someone the west is bad at all costs. Yes, I know, I 100% agree, you don't have to try and convince me. But this doesn't mean that Russia or Iran or whatever are less patriarchal societies than western ones. That is simply not true. I'm not debating the merits of the west or something..