First of all I've not been here long so if a similar topic was posted here recently feel free to link it and call me names. I'm into military sim games and flight simulators. For example DCS, ARMA and Rising storm 2: Vietnam. I really like the gameplay, but I sometimes can't help thinking about the real world atrocities that were committed with the simulated war machine I'm using.
For example, I'm googling the name of an Air-to-Ground missile so that I can find out its effective range or something, and the wikipedia page has paragraphs about how it was "really effective" in bombing bridges in Vietnam, or how it was used extensively in Iraq. Less often it's something more wholesome, like how improper handling of a Zuni rocket resulted in a huge and very destructive fire on a US aircraft carrier while it was deployed in the South China sea during the Vietnam war.
It doesn't help of course how any story or campaign on such games is basically unapologetic NATO propaganda. It's also interesting how games like Call of Duty don't usually trigger this for me, because their mechanics are so far removed from reality it's basically an arcade game with a "realistic" coat of paint, no different from DOOM or whatever.
Anyway, those feelings aren't enough for me to stop playing those games, nor do I think they're fundamentally unethical or something. I'm just wondering if anyone here had similar experiences.
When I started reading the thread, I IMMEDIATELY thought of Rising Storm 2: Vietnam, before I got to the part where you mentioned that game.
It's something about the realistic movement, difficult aiming, and 1-2 shot kills from most weapons. And the iron sights, and the slow reloads. Not to mention the voice lines.
It's also the way they handle the objective system in that game, which makes it so that teams usually run together instead of having individual players sprinting around like Quake.
The result is that playing as the Americans really does feel vaguely wrong. I agree it's just a game, and I don't care, but it really does make me feel a little bad playing it.
Half the time you're basically attacking a village, trading gunfire with a bunch of farmers from relatively nearby villages. You're just landing and machine gunning this village, blasting through wicker, relentlessly until one side runs out of men. And so much of the game shows the result of previous bombing and destruction- rubbled buildings, napalmed hellscapes - all imposed on this country by your unseen allies.
I've never really preferred one side or the other in war video games, beyond liking certain weapons on one side or the other. Even WWII. This one feels different. Im not a Soviet larper type, but that game really does make me prefer the VC over the US/Australians/etc.
I'd probably feel even more uncomfortable if the allied side of a WWII game was like, resistance fighters in their own homes.
Great breakdown, those are my thoughts exactly. The devs did a great job of humanizing the Vietnamese side, and it's almost completely done through the environment and the game's mechanics. There isn't even a story or single-player campaign in the game after all. And yet the difference between the two sides is very apparent. The Americans are coming in with Hueys practically blasting Fortunate Son, machine-gunning everything that moves and raining down hellfire. The Vietnamese are dressed in civilian clothes, armed with third-hand WW2 pieces of crap and pure determination. They're fighting in their family's rice field, in the burned down forest they probably played in as a child and in the ruins of their hometown.
The game emphasizes their 'guerilla' aspect by allowing them to climb vines and drainpipes, fight better in the tunnels, and create low-tech traps in dirt. They face an invader trained by the wealthiest empire in the world and armed with space-age technology. The american airstrikes are precise and devastating, the Vietnamese artillery has a 50-50 chance of hitting you or the enemy. And on top of that the combat feels visceral and gritty, because the limitations of the weapons are modeled very well. Machine guns overheat, long guns are unwieldy in tight corridors and the sniper scope the Viet Kong got their hands on might as well be a tin can with a magnifying glass. I won't forget the time I fired an RPG without checking my 6 first and burned 3 teammates to death lol. Also, the screams of death after a napalm strike will haunt my dreams. Like you said, there's this feeling of feeding meat to the meat grinder until one side just runs out.
Anyway, if you haven't done so already you should check out Tavisota: Winter War. It's a full game conversion mod for Rising Storm 2, free as long as you have the original game. It takes place during the Soviet-Finnish winter war, and I have to say it's comparable in quality to the base game. New maps, weapons, drivable tanks etc. The Finns can deploy skis, and most classes fight with bolt-action rifles so the pace is a bit slower, it's really great.
Oh I'll have to try that, I do really love me some realistic bolt-action focused combat with the occasional SMG thrown in. Beyond the Wire scratches that too.