I'm not gonna go and look at the posts there because I don't really care, but that doesn't really seem all that crazy. It appears to addressing neoliberal feminism. I have definitely had the experience with neoliberal feminists wherein it appears that they more interested in simply eliminating the aspects of our society that disadvantage women but are not necessarily interested in eliminating the aspects of our society that advantage women (which do exist). I feel like I'm not alone in having that experience with "mainstream feminism" aka "girlboss feminism". Just off the top of my head would be girlboss feminists who still believe that men should be the ones to ask them out and pay for dates, etc. I know girlboss feminists IRL that take stances like that wherein they want to maintain gender norms when it is to their benefit.
Whether or not that sub is about that, or just a place for men to complain about feminism in general, is a different story, and like I said, I don't care enough to go look.
I'd think /r/menslib would be the better sub to talk about girlboss feminism and how much of a sham it is. This gives me the impression it's just a sub to attack women under the guise of being progressive to avoid a ban. Maybe, like you I don't care enough to go look.
I’m not gonna go and look at the posts there because I don’t really care, but that doesn’t really seem all that crazy
It does. When someone complains about feminism guilt tripping men or "downplaying female advantages PARTICULARLY IN CASES OF ALLEGED ABUSE" and "one sided equality" then it's a big fucking burning red flag. It should not be the purpose of a MEN'S sub to specifically complain about "girlboss feminism", inevitably they won't stick to that (not that they were planning to).
No, it's not in and of itself a red flag. There are absolutely women of the "girlboss feminist" variety that use it as a way to climb the social/corporate ladder and not as a means of liberation for all people of all genders. I regularly have to interact with quite a few such women. I've seen many of these same women downplay sexual abuse of men, which is a issue that is actually a wider societal issue. Feminists/the feminist movement, and more specifically it's submovements, as is really the case here (referring to neoliberal feminism) should in no circumstances be above critique for its failures, and men have as much of a right to critique as anyone else of any other gender identity. If the posting just devolves into stupidpol level complaints about everything with no real attempts to discuss the building of more egalitarian gender norms, then that is a different story.
Nowhere in either of my previous statements have I defended this sub. OP tried to show that this sub is bad with these three paragraphs, and what I have said is that there is nothing inherently wrong with these three paragraphs, and that instead, if the sub is bad, it should show with actual posting examples. In my comment that you responded to, I specifically said:
If the posting just devolves into stupidpol level complaints about everything with no real attempts to discuss the building of more egalitarian gender norms, then that is a different story.
I'm not gonna go and look at the posts there because I don't really care, but that doesn't really seem all that crazy. It appears to addressing neoliberal feminism. I have definitely had the experience with neoliberal feminists wherein it appears that they more interested in simply eliminating the aspects of our society that disadvantage women but are not necessarily interested in eliminating the aspects of our society that advantage women (which do exist). I feel like I'm not alone in having that experience with "mainstream feminism" aka "girlboss feminism". Just off the top of my head would be girlboss feminists who still believe that men should be the ones to ask them out and pay for dates, etc. I know girlboss feminists IRL that take stances like that wherein they want to maintain gender norms when it is to their benefit.
Whether or not that sub is about that, or just a place for men to complain about feminism in general, is a different story, and like I said, I don't care enough to go look.
I'd think /r/menslib would be the better sub to talk about girlboss feminism and how much of a sham it is. This gives me the impression it's just a sub to attack women under the guise of being progressive to avoid a ban. Maybe, like you I don't care enough to go look.
Maybe menslib has too many lib men.
Never post there so I'm going to take your word for it. Someone should get in there and radicalize them!
I don't post there either.
Go to menslib or whatever if you want to talk about MENS issues, not complain about feminist women not doing it right. Women can do that too.
It does. When someone complains about feminism guilt tripping men or "downplaying female advantages PARTICULARLY IN CASES OF ALLEGED ABUSE" and "one sided equality" then it's a big fucking burning red flag. It should not be the purpose of a MEN'S sub to specifically complain about "girlboss feminism", inevitably they won't stick to that (not that they were planning to).
No, it's not in and of itself a red flag. There are absolutely women of the "girlboss feminist" variety that use it as a way to climb the social/corporate ladder and not as a means of liberation for all people of all genders. I regularly have to interact with quite a few such women. I've seen many of these same women downplay sexual abuse of men, which is a issue that is actually a wider societal issue. Feminists/the feminist movement, and more specifically it's submovements, as is really the case here (referring to neoliberal feminism) should in no circumstances be above critique for its failures, and men have as much of a right to critique as anyone else of any other gender identity. If the posting just devolves into stupidpol level complaints about everything with no real attempts to discuss the building of more egalitarian gender norms, then that is a different story.
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Nowhere in either of my previous statements have I defended this sub. OP tried to show that this sub is bad with these three paragraphs, and what I have said is that there is nothing inherently wrong with these three paragraphs, and that instead, if the sub is bad, it should show with actual posting examples. In my comment that you responded to, I specifically said: