I really feel homeless when it comes to this issue. On one hand reddit is pretending bodies are being stacked. On the other hand this place acts like China's official statements don't amount to a cultural genocide.
edit: enjoy the view of people cursing at me and my replies getting deleted. Great site you got here, mods.
Chinas official statements have always been that the struggle against extremism must not extend into racism or islamophobia and the claims of cultural genocide are very unclear and shaky as to what specifics they mean and what evidence exists, with some claims amounting to "China is forcing Uighurs to taint their bloodline with Han semen".
Yes they do what the fuck are you talking about, idk if you're referring to them switching primary language in education to mandarin or something but they absolutely speak their own language. Its on the fucking currency like holy shit.
5 seconds of googling and here's an official party statement telling people they're not patriotic if they speak their native language. Gee, I wonder what that portends.
Thanks, I loathe to trust google translate on this but theres nothing in this that is dissuading people from speaking or learning their native minority language, its exclusively discussing promoting Mandarin as a unifying national language and perfectly aligns with the statements about improving material conditions by doing shit like ensuring mandarin competency so situations like in the link where people cant understand manuals or other things doesnt occur.
It does not tell anyone that they are unpatriotic if they speak their own language or participate in their own culture, but tries to promote patriotism in learning the same language as the whole rest of China.
I frankly have some criticisms about the Chinese policies toward non-Mandarin languages, but I do understand why they promote Mandarin as the national. I feel like some of these comments come from Americans who aren't exactly used to the fact that a huge portion of the world regularly uses more than one language.
They aren't phasing out Uyghur at all, just promoting bi-lingualism...I guess ESL classes that are mandatory for immigrants in public school are cultural genocide now.
This is more or less what I'm saying, it's just that they have overstepped a bit in the past imo. Nothing for anyone to be up in arms about, it'd be something for the Chinese people to fight for themselves (which they did in Guangdong). The whole conversation is really idealism anyway, so who gives ya know?
I agree, but that's the territory we're in right now. This is a problem that is solved internally and there's no reason for people who aren't there to even think about it. No one's threatening sanctions against the US for ESL programs and most of the people criticizing China for "cultural genocide" would defend ESL in the same breath (I've seen some even defend the Native American schools).
What's even better is that the language learning programs in China aren't madatory anymore, just highly promoted.
As China grows stronger, more and more foreigners begin to learn Chinese traditional culture and learn to speak "Chinese". As a Chinese, many of us Uyghurs do not speak Mandarin, and are not ashamed or disapproving. Isn't this funny? Isn't this worth our thoughts?
...
Having worked at the grassroots level for many years, I have deeply experienced the convenience of being able to speak Mandarin to my work. In work and life, I always tell myself subconsciously, try my best to communicate with colleagues and relatives in Mandarin. As the current "de-radicalization" work is in full swing, I have strengthened my confidence in speaking Mandarin well. However, besides me, there are many cadres and employees of ethnic minorities who, as public officials, cannot communicate fluently in Chinese. At work, due to obstacles in speaking Mandarin, I can't help speaking in Uyghur. * National public officials are an outstanding class of Uyghurs who are knowledgeable and educated. Their words and deeds are related to the expectations of the masses and the orientation of their work, and they have an immeasurable social influence. To learn to use a language, you must have a good language environment. If national public officials can persist in "speaking the national language" in public and use Chinese to communicate and express, it will create a positive atmosphere for learning the national language, and then make the masses aware of the importance of learning the national language, which is bound to promote Uyghur The upsurge of national language learning.
...
Conversely, if public officials of the country cannot insist on "speaking the Mandarin" in public, then the masses will unknowingly weaken their enthusiasm for learning Mandarin, which is bound to cause a series of negative effects.
...
As a township civil servant, every time I watched the five-star red flag rise during the flag-raising ceremony on Monday, a deep patriotism surged in my heart. Whenever I raised my right fist and solemnly took an oath, I felt a strong sense of responsibility. All over the body. Every flag-raising ceremony is a "patriotism" education. Every time I see the bright five-star red flag fluttering in the wind, it strengthens my confidence in learning Mandarin.
...
Our public officials take the lead in learning and using Mandarin, which is spreading the positive energy of patriotism! Learning and using the country’s common spoken and written language is conducive to cultivating citizens’ patriotism, strengthening the "five identities", and enhancing the centripetal force and cohesion of the Chinese nation. It is the most basic requirement of patriotism for Uyghur cadres and the masses to learn the standard spoken and written language of the country. It is also a concrete manifestation of actively adapting to the new situation, keeping up with the new era, and embracing modernization. The traditional culture of the Chinese nation is the common spiritual wealth of our 56 nations. Only by mastering the national spoken and written language can we enhance our "cultural confidence", better resist the infiltration of religious extreme ideas, and better adapt to the development trend of the new era.
And in this editorial you will CLEARLY see...
checks notes
"an official party statement telling people they’re not patriotic if they speak their native language?"
if public officials of the country cannot insist on “speaking the Mandarin” in public, then the masses will unknowingly weaken their enthusiasm for learning Mandarin
Shouldn't politicians speak the language of their constituents so their constituents can understand them?
And what if the Uyghur officials need to communicate with other officials who don't speak Uyghur? There is such a thing as being BI- or Tri-lingual.
The whole point of this is Mandarin serves as the Lingua Franca of the greater Chinese union. There are many languages and dialects spoken across the country, and the largest commonality between those is Mandarin.
Then they should speak mandarin or hire an interpreter.
The point is that they're advocating politicians primarily speak a language their constituents don't, in order to encourage their constituents to become multilingual. It's paternalistic
It's an article by an ethnic Uyghur suggesting, in response to other articles, that if you love the country of China then we should also be working to consciously use the language in public to help elevate the perceived status of the Uyghur population in China.
It seems like it's mostly referring to public officials as well...
I don't know exactly how I feel about that as I don't even kind of have the cultural awareness and context, but it seems like an opinion piece and has nothing to do with "not allowing them to speak their own language" any more than the cultural faux pas similar to Spanish speakers in the US.
I'm literally just trying to tell you that your link is dead as dillinger, its fucking prince philip over here and you start telling me I'm coping with something and I literally am just telling you that Wayback Machine has not archived this URL like what am I supposed to do about it its your link.
No, here's where we go, "Wayback Machine has not archived that URL.".
Edit: since I cant actually argue with whatever you are trying to convey here, 5 seconds of googling is possibly the least convincing thing you can say in a debate about the most massively astroturfed subject that exists.
To your edit, 5 seconds of googling is the part calling you lazy and deliberately avoiding information you disagree with. The "official party document" part you managed to simply forget or pretend it didn't exist in the same sentence.
Yeah cause I was responding to you out of the blue telling me that I'm just coping when your link objectively didn't work and you decided to whine like a baby and throw insult instead of simply fixing the link like two other people have done now, btw your take on the link is just inventing shit, it doesnt say anything about people not speaking their own language, just promoting the learning and speaking of Mandarin as a unifying patriotic action, which also helps improve peoples opportunities and ease of travel around China.
Wouldn't have personally banned him but jesus fuck, way to be a dickhead about basic linking of your argument, and then acting like google translating a complex ass language is solid information, AND THEN ALSO HAVING THE GOOGLE TRANSLATE OF THE LINK NOT SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT.
If you can't engage someone in good faith, without "YOURE COPING" (for no reason) etc. then you have no right being here. That sort of hostility is unproductive, doesn't add anything to the argument and just makes the site worse.
I really feel homeless when it comes to this issue. On one hand reddit is pretending bodies are being stacked. On the other hand this place acts like China's official statements don't amount to a cultural genocide.
edit: enjoy the view of people cursing at me and my replies getting deleted. Great site you got here, mods.
Chinas official statements have always been that the struggle against extremism must not extend into racism or islamophobia and the claims of cultural genocide are very unclear and shaky as to what specifics they mean and what evidence exists, with some claims amounting to "China is forcing Uighurs to taint their bloodline with Han semen".
Removed by mod
Yes they do what the fuck are you talking about, idk if you're referring to them switching primary language in education to mandarin or something but they absolutely speak their own language. Its on the fucking currency like holy shit.
https://web.archive.org/web/20181027024145/https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?src=11×tamp=1540608057&ver=1207&signature=fdRW-tFrJl9Uugfo2DCINfuUB3Qe4ddDKnFIlCwLAmk9wGuOsVODAJUKpJgkFFew7XfUw8uSYLKiNGSbhTZ5Pf5IgoRQpqpZmyfU66f8Y1UgwS6EMWokFb-Zc253Yq&new=1
5 seconds of googling and here's an official party statement telling people they're not patriotic if they speak their native language. Gee, I wonder what that portends.
deleted by creator
Thanks, I loathe to trust google translate on this but theres nothing in this that is dissuading people from speaking or learning their native minority language, its exclusively discussing promoting Mandarin as a unifying national language and perfectly aligns with the statements about improving material conditions by doing shit like ensuring mandarin competency so situations like in the link where people cant understand manuals or other things doesnt occur.
It does not tell anyone that they are unpatriotic if they speak their own language or participate in their own culture, but tries to promote patriotism in learning the same language as the whole rest of China.
I frankly have some criticisms about the Chinese policies toward non-Mandarin languages, but I do understand why they promote Mandarin as the national. I feel like some of these comments come from Americans who aren't exactly used to the fact that a huge portion of the world regularly uses more than one language.
They aren't phasing out Uyghur at all, just promoting bi-lingualism...I guess ESL classes that are mandatory for immigrants in public school are cultural genocide now.
This is more or less what I'm saying, it's just that they have overstepped a bit in the past imo. Nothing for anyone to be up in arms about, it'd be something for the Chinese people to fight for themselves (which they did in Guangdong). The whole conversation is really idealism anyway, so who gives ya know?
Making them mandatory isn't genocide, but it's certainly assinilationism and something that the American left had been criticizing for a long time.
I agree, but that's the territory we're in right now. This is a problem that is solved internally and there's no reason for people who aren't there to even think about it. No one's threatening sanctions against the US for ESL programs and most of the people criticizing China for "cultural genocide" would defend ESL in the same breath (I've seen some even defend the Native American schools).
What's even better is that the language learning programs in China aren't madatory anymore, just highly promoted.
Warning: Shitty google translate below
...
...
...
...
And in this editorial you will CLEARLY see...
checks notes
"an official party statement telling people they’re not patriotic if they speak their native language?"
Shouldn't politicians speak the language of their constituents so their constituents can understand them?
And what if the Uyghur officials need to communicate with other officials who don't speak Uyghur? There is such a thing as being BI- or Tri-lingual.
The whole point of this is Mandarin serves as the Lingua Franca of the greater Chinese union. There are many languages and dialects spoken across the country, and the largest commonality between those is Mandarin.
Then they should speak mandarin or hire an interpreter.
The point is that they're advocating politicians primarily speak a language their constituents don't, in order to encourage their constituents to become multilingual. It's paternalistic
It's explicitly not paternalistic? How is multilingualism restrictive?
Dead link.
https://web.archive.org/web/20181027024145/https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?src=11×tamp=1540608057&ver=1207&signature=fdRW-tFrJl9Uugfo2DCINfuUB3Qe4ddDKnFIlCwLAmk9wGuOsVODAJUKpJgkFFew7XfUw8uSYLKiNGSbhTZ5Pf5Ig*oRQpqpZmyfU66f8Y1UgwS6EMWokFb-Zc253Yq*&new=1
Fixed the link. It had *'s in it.
It's an article by an ethnic Uyghur suggesting, in response to other articles, that if you love the country of China then we should also be working to consciously use the language in public to help elevate the perceived status of the Uyghur population in China.
It seems like it's mostly referring to public officials as well...
I don't know exactly how I feel about that as I don't even kind of have the cultural awareness and context, but it seems like an opinion piece and has nothing to do with "not allowing them to speak their own language" any more than the cultural faux pas similar to Spanish speakers in the US.
Copy and paste it into your browser
It's not a dead link. It's the internet archive. Holy shit.
Yeah I did its fucking dead.
Removed by mod
It literally doesn't work what the fuck are you on about, "Wayback Machine has not archived that URL." motherfucker.
Such a weird hill to die on. "Link doesn't work" "STOP COPING BOOTLICKER"
Wow having mods delete what I say right in front of my eyes sure is a weird hill to die on
I click the link, "Wayback Machine has not archived that URL." I copy paste the link, "Wayback Machine has not archived that URL."
What am I coping with here, your inability to link your arguments?
Yeah because you're being needlessly hostile when the link doesn't work.
Removed by mod
I'm literally just trying to tell you that your link is dead as dillinger, its fucking prince philip over here and you start telling me I'm coping with something and I literally am just telling you that Wayback Machine has not archived this URL like what am I supposed to do about it its your link.
The link fucking works.
Have you... clicked on the link?
https://imgur.com/a/jFxW4Qd
That's where you go
https://i.imgur.com/I3DV1y4.png
No, here's where we go, "Wayback Machine has not archived that URL.".
Edit: since I cant actually argue with whatever you are trying to convey here, 5 seconds of googling is possibly the least convincing thing you can say in a debate about the most massively astroturfed subject that exists.
Read the screenshot then
To your edit, 5 seconds of googling is the part calling you lazy and deliberately avoiding information you disagree with. The "official party document" part you managed to simply forget or pretend it didn't exist in the same sentence.
Hey look, the mods didn't instantly delete what you said despite being twice as hostile with your MF
Wonder what that's about
Yeah cause I was responding to you out of the blue telling me that I'm just coping when your link objectively didn't work and you decided to whine like a baby and throw insult instead of simply fixing the link like two other people have done now, btw your take on the link is just inventing shit, it doesnt say anything about people not speaking their own language, just promoting the learning and speaking of Mandarin as a unifying patriotic action, which also helps improve peoples opportunities and ease of travel around China.
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Wouldn't have personally banned him but jesus fuck, way to be a dickhead about basic linking of your argument, and then acting like google translating a complex ass language is solid information, AND THEN ALSO HAVING THE GOOGLE TRANSLATE OF THE LINK NOT SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT.
They were having the same impact as a FUD imperialist regardless of whether they meant to or not.
If you can't engage someone in good faith, without "YOURE COPING" (for no reason) etc. then you have no right being here. That sort of hostility is unproductive, doesn't add anything to the argument and just makes the site worse.
Yeah makes sense.