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you all hate it, but i enjoyed it. I'll stand with the libs on this one.
I think certain episides (mos specifically Bojacks 'stupid piece of shit' and Dianes writing troubles) really spoke to me.
I liked it too, and I really liked that one episode where he was underwater and most of the episode is completely silent.
The entire point of the show is that Bojack literally can't change who he is, and acts as a completely toxic influence on everyone around him. Everything he touches is corrupted by his inner rot, his "friends" and acquaintances grow increasingly toxic and self-destructive in the same exact way.
The ending is Bojack and Diane in particular mutually recognizing this and coming to terms with cutting ties with each other forever.
EDIT: To go on, a major theme throughout the show is that the past shapes who you are and it stays with you, it's inescapable. Over and over again Bojack repents and tries to change his ways, but every single time it seems like he's succeeded something from his past returns to haunt him in the present and he spirals back into his toxic habits.
But Bojack is also a huge celebrity in a society that treats the elite with a different set of rules compared to mere mortals. So Bojack can relapse as many times as he wants. He can do all kinds of heinous shit. Every single time he will get off with a relative slap on the wrist. And this just reinforces his toxic behavior.
The combination of his traumatic, dysfunctional childhood and his consequence-free status as a rich Hollywood celebrity means he is a person incapable of change.
My radical take on BH is that Bojack isn't toxic or malevolent, but just extremely stupid because he's never had any good influences in his life so he just simply does not know how to appropriately react to situations. So all his stupid decisions end up fucking up himself and everyone around him.
This makes Todd and Mr. Peanutbutter kind of interesting contrasts, both are also pretty stupid but Todd is a Karma Houdini who seems to always end up where he started while Mr. P's fuck ups usually end up having positive influences on the people around him
Pretty much everyone but him grew and moved on. He lost everything, and went to jail, and its incredibly unclear whether he's really learned anything at all.
Given it’s a show about a horse that never changes, i suppose that makes some sense
Over a year passed between the final and penultimate episode, so it makes sense that the characters would be ok with him despite being angry at him in the episodes before. And 14 months in prison isn't insignificant - sure, its unusually short for the US's fucked up justice system, but its still a lot of time.
And he totally does get punishment, even besides the prison time, he loses his relationship with Hollyhock and Diane, he loses his house, and I can't imagine going through the penultimate episode was a particularly pleasant experience. The finale doesn't punish BoJack because he's already been punished, the finale's job is to dwell on that and explore what that means for BoJack (and the other 4 characters) afterwards.
I'm pretty sure you didn't actually watch the show. He was literally in jail. He wasn't a pedophile, even Penny was of legal age and he didn't do anything with her (would he have? He had already sent her away). His brokenness was a part of him.
People fuck up, Bojack in a television character way. They have friends that support them. Hell, even the Sackler family probably has friends, let alone people that think they shouldn't be forced to live in poverty for the rest of their lives.
The show wasn't just about Bojack. The main theme, if there was one, was how to be a good person, and how you have to do it consistently, everyday, and not just in big ways but in small ways - and not just to others but to yourself. It was about life and what happens the day after the happiest and saddest days of your life.
Plus it was fucking hilarious and awesome the way it told stories in interesting ways and set up jokes 10 episodes before the punchline.
Jerry Seinfeld
spoiler
I think Bojack and Jerry are both Gen Xers though.
He wasn’t a pedophile, even Penny was of legal age and he didn’t do anything with her
This feels very much like a "it is actually Ephebophilia" type of argument. Doesn't he make out with a teenager in season 1?
No he makes out with 29 year old Sarah Lynn, who was his television daughter. Yeah it's super cringe, but nothing like sleeping with someone under age.
A drifting glow stick balloon floats by the ship and catches the attention of Charlotte. When Charlotte walks by to investigate, she hears noises from within the ship and opens the cabin door to discover both Penny and BoJack in bed, about to start undressing each other.
You already mentioned it but you seem to have forgotten that after his initial rejection the mom caught them about to undress each other.
https://bojackhorseman.fandom.com/wiki/Penny_Carson
Wait what? I distinctly remember the first season involving him coming on to the daughter of his long lost crush or something? In a later season he also visits her college and she is terrified of him.
That was the end of the 2nd season. (2 11). He takes Penny to the prom. Gives the teenagers bourbon (to replace the red bull and vodka). Penny's friend gets alcohol poisoning, but he ditches her and her date at the ER. When he gets home, Penny is dtf, but he turns her down. He then goes and sits by the fire with his old crush, Charlotte, Penny's mom, and they kiss. Charlotte tells him he needs to go, she has a happy family... He gets back to the boat and Penny is there. They're in the room together, clothed and sitting on the bed when Charlotte busts him.
Would he have? I don't know, I think that's what the scene was trying to say.
He wasn't into teens or anything, that wasn't a predilection or anything, he was into what a young Charlotte meant to him.
No, the only time he said anything like that was when he was doing his Oscar interview. He literally lost his erection when the boat was mentioned, and speculated on what he might have done ( his "stupid piece of shit" voice in action).
Edit - none of this is really the point though. Bojack was not a good person. He could be witty, smart and could do good things, but he wasn't a good person. That wasn't the point of the show. He was potentially redeemable, he could change if he worked at it, and it's not easy to change, but all you have is your future...
He literally never said he would have. He said something like it. I was trying to give you the benefit that you were arguing in good faith and not being trollish.
That was the end of the 2nd season. (2 11)
Ahh I see, maybe I did watch more than 2 seasons then.
Would he have? I don’t know, I think that’s what the scene was trying to say.
He wasn’t into teens or anything, that wasn’t a predilection or anything, he was into what a young Charlotte meant to him.
This is splitting hairs, I distinctly remember thinking that the ambiguity was very limited. Plus Penny being terrified of him in a later season should indicate that she had a sense that she was being taken advantage of (at least in hindsight). Anyway my sympathy for stuff like this is very limited - the whole show felt incredibly self indulgent (I am not saying Bojack had to face cosmic divine justice but these kinds of shows and themes feel terribly common to me). Tbf I can't expect much else from the milieu and people who get to create 'culture' (esp in America).
That was while he was making amends, AA style, while on a bender. Which was fucked up and darkly hilarious.
One other thing about the show - about once a week on the Bojack sub, someone will come say how The View From Halfway Down literally saved their life. The show was good and did good.
The writers wanted to continue the show but Netflix ended it early after the staff unionized
Wait don't writers have a guild or union thing already? I thought tv writers have been on strike before (as a whole I mean).
The animators unionized iirc. It's also theorized that that's why Tuca and Bertie got canned after only 1 season
Ahh I see animation and game dev def need some unionization.
I stopped watching two (maybe 3?) seasons in because I felt it was awfully repetitive. Every season just ended the same way, I think just watching the first one is enough (and it is a pretty good season, but not many reasons to watch more).
Your friend chooses to no longer have you as part of their life.
Your friend "hates you."
What is the difference between these two things? Like, if someone cuts you out of their life, that's about the strongest message they can send.
Yeah but hating somebody is usually what prevents one from moving on. Bojack was actually amazing in helping me frame my own trauma, especially with regards to parental figures. Hopefully not indulging in my own life experience too much, I would like to assert that so long as the hatred for the parent who abused and abandoned me burned white hot I could not help but treat their figure as anything but a tortured deity always haunting my presence. I couldn't move on until I stop hating the image of the tyrant, until I saw nothing but an impotent, lacking subject caught In the vicissitudes of their own imposture.
I really feel like that defeats the final message of the show "sometimes life's a bitch and you keep on living" I'd rather have what we got which is Bojack having to live this life where he's lost everything than an ambiguous ending
