I voted for Biden to stop fascism and now he's supporting genocide.
And continuing Trump's immigration policy, crushing unions, building the border wall, etc.
Remember folks this is what he promised us. Nothing has fundamentally changed.
Crushing unions? Didn't he personally go to a union strike before to show his support?
See this is the problem with liberals. They care more about symbolic support and ignore actual material reality.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-signs-bill-block-us-railroad-strike-2022-12-02/
first class segregation politics behavior you're showing there.
who the fuck even says this?
who the fuck even says this?
Also funny they said "first class" when they clearly have zero class analysis.
I've got a good goddamn guess; it's eight letters long, starts with a 'C', and ends with an 'rs'.
you fuckin called me a segregationist for showing you a link from Biden literally shutting down a strike. Please fuck all the way off.
Biden was literally pro segregation.
Also the link that you "appreciate" contradicts everything you said.
Again and I will continue to repeat this: Go. Fuck. Yourself.
Edit: sorry mods, I can't be civil with someone trying to gaslight me.
What the fuck are you talking about? You claimed the photo op he did was better than actual support, you were shown how it absolutely wasn't, and now you're calling someone a segregationist for...not wanting to vote for a segregationist? Absolute bird brain. No, actually my beautiful bird is much smarter than that.
Your toxic Biden Bro behavior is going to put Trump in the White House (again).
You're supporting an actual segregationist who broke a huge strike and calling people who don't think he's pro union "segregationists?"
Do you realize how absurd you sound?
You put down half a thought. So what are you going to do, vote for an actual fascist or not vote so that an actual fascist wins?
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won't because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they've even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
What's the matter, peckerwood; don't like you guys's favorite thought-terminators getting flippantly flung back in your face? Gee, who'd have fucking thought?
Understand, if the choice is between genocidal crypto-fascism and genocidal fascism-obvious, I have no issue with watching your country die instead. Better we go out than the whole rest of the world under our boot. I would rather die, and I would rather we as a collective fell, than ever support another fascist for any fucking reason.
I don’t tend to let people insult me then attempt to influence me. Learn a little about the art of persuasion and try again. Also, get a grip. This isn’t Facebook or Reddit. Try not to act like those people.
Was it the term "peckerwood" that you found insulting? Would being referred to as "crackkker" hurt your feewings as much?
As a proud Biden supporter, I know two things: 1. 2024 is the most important election of our lives and we must do anything and everything to maximize the voter turnout for Biden, even If it means reaching out to our political enemies and making unsavory compromises; and 2. If you don't immediately agree to vote for Biden then you're just a fucking [slur, slur, slur] and I'm going to go out of my way to antagonize and alienate you and anyone else who may be reading these threads -- that's called the art of persuasion!
2024 is the most important election of our lives and we must do anything and everything to maximize the voter turnout for Biden, even If it means reaching out to our political enemies and making unsavory compromises;
Just like 2020, 2016, 2012, 2008, and 2004 before it
Like narc-jacketing isn't a tried and true tactic of redditors. Like this "vote blue no matter who" horseshit you peddle wasn't hand-crafted by OccupyDemocrats eight years ago. If you don't sit your hypocritical ass down and get out of my inbox with your settler peckerwoodery... See, you liberal invertebrates miss this little point every single fucking time. You come to people who have NO INTEREST in backing your genocidal-assed party, or even your genocidal-assed nation, really; and then Demand our support. It's you who owes the 'persuasion' in the first place.
And you are failing. Fascism comes to y'alls cute little gated neighborhoods because of you and Everyone who acts like you. I hope I live long enough to watch the settler house of cards collapse on itself. I wonder if you're even aware enough to realize how hard of a non-starter supporting your party became with the GENOCIDE that Joe decided to full-throatedly back. Like... Do you realize what I see supporting your party as equivalent to anymore with that? Do you even want to know?
This isn’t Facebook or Reddit
Your instance is full of ledditors, where do you get off saying this?
Unearned and unjustified superiority, just like the rest of the settler trash in their party afaic
You're laughing. You're a pawn of Trump and Putin and you're laughing.
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won't because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they've even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won't because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they've even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
Keep "Voting Blue No Matter Who" and watch as every promise they ran on vanish without a fight because YOU have taken away any incentive to.
Here's the thing. There's a big brigade thing going on right now where I'm apparently the worst human who's ever lived for asking a question. But, one thing that nobody seems to be able to do is tell me what the alternative is to voting Biden. Nobody can answer that question--it's just "you're stupid because Biden" and that's the end of it. So, I'm really asking--what is the proposed alternative action?
If you want an actual answer, the most peaceful possible solution at this juncture is communist revolution.
Sadly, the moment people try, it’s no longer communism. The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.
Sadly, the moment people try, it’s no longer communism
I'll rephrase: each time it has been attempted it wasn't really a communist revolution, but rather a group responsible for regime change using the term as they appoint a new elite.
That's not true, and it shows that you obviously haven't investigated those revolutions or the theory behind them.
The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.
Yes. This issue is dealt with through communist theory. A revolution is a process. It doesn't end at a "change of regime."
Its true that class and money are not immediately abolished, because they can't be immediately abolished. The abolition of class and momey is a theoretical endpoint of a long period of transition because
The entire populace would need to see the world differently than they do now.
More or less as you put it.
You are saying that because the process isn't automatic, and people now do not already see the world that way, that the process should never begin
You should investigate the actual revolutions you're talking about, and read some of the basic theories behind them. If you are still against them, then at lesst you will actually know what you're talking about, and your critiques would be worth hearing
You are saying that because the process isn’t automatic, and people now do not already see the world that way, that the process should never begin
No, I'm saying that it hasn't happened yet because humans as a whole aren't ready for it. Maybe in 150-200 years we'll be in a different place. Remember that when people said "Please wear a mask, my grandmother has cancer" about 50% of the populace yelled "FUCK YOUR GRANDMOTHER MY LIBERTIES ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT MATTER." With people like that, you can't really have communism.
No, I'm saying that it hasn't happened yet because humans as a whole aren't ready for it.
Which is what you're wrong about, because there are nations right now engaged in revolution. The largest nation in earth is currently involved in the most successful revolutionary project yet, which began back in 1949.
You're not wrong that the revolutionary potential in the imperial core is low for a number of factors. But that's not the world.
You also said
each time it has been attempted it wasn't really a communist revolution
Which is not true and was more what i was talking about.
During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum
If they just wanted power, they could have easily joined the very powerful repressive governments that ruled at the time. Castro could have signed on with Batista's regime. Mao could have joined the ruling KMT. Instead, they risked their lives doing the much harder and more dangerous work of going against the US empire and it's puppet states.
I already knew you were saying that. You're wrong. If you want to talk about communism, you should investigate it first because you don't know what you're talking about
No investigation, no right to speak. Do some self-crit + reading or shut the fuck up.
Nah. This is a circle jerk. I say a thing and then the reactionaries descend to tell me that I’m wrong. Yet nobody has anything to offer beyond “you’re stupid”.
A group of better educated people are telling me I’m wrong, clearly they are just reactionaries.
What a beautiful mind you possess.
I'll rephrase: each time it has been attempted it wasn't really a banning, but rather a group responsible for userbase change using the term as they appoint a new banned user.
even more satisfying after he called us all "reactionaries"
What are you doing to educate me? What have I learned here other than that a difference in thought offends you?
I’m not trying to, the only thing that can make a person learn is if they actually want to. No point in leading a horse to water.
In the mean time I’ll have some fun.
The fun for you really is the ability to tell others they are wrong. Then you’re not willing to help others learn things you think should. You must be great at parties.
I’m out.
Oh, you must have missed my comment then. Here you go:
During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum
If they just wanted power, they could have easily joined the very powerful repressive governments that ruled at the time. Castro could have signed on with Batista's regime. Mao could have joined the ruling KMT. Instead, they risked their lives doing the much harder and more dangerous work of going against the US empire and it's puppet states.
Oh, you must have missed my comment then
Its interesting how they always seem to miss a comment that is providing what they claim to want. Hmmmmmm
theres no personal attack in anything i said. You just don't know what you're talking about in terms of any of thise revolutions. Seems like you don't even know what the internets favorite logic nerd term means either“You just don’t know what you’re talking about…”
That’s the part that makes it personal. Notable that you’ve still offered nothing in the way of your perceived correction. It stops at “you’re wrong” as if that were how conversations operate. If you believe I’m wrong, why not try to convince me?
“You just don’t know what you’re talking about…”
That’s the part that makes it personal.
That's not a personal attack. A personal attack would be saying your a dumb reddit-brained smuglord. And an ad hominem would be saying you're wrong because youre a dumb reddit-brained smuglord.
I didnt stop at saying your wrong. I said you should investigate the people and revolutions you're talking about, because if you did investigate you would know you're wrong. That's why i said you don't know what you're talking about, because no one could have actually read about the 1917 revolution, the Chinese Revolution, or the Cuban revolution and think that they are not communist revolutions, or just "dressed up in the clothes of communism"
If you believe I’m wrong, why not try to convince me?
If you believe you're right, why aren't you trying to convincing me?
You're the one who made an assertion that is obvioulsy untrue to anyone who knows about those subjects. You made these obviously false assertions without any evidence whatsoever, but somehow the burden of proof for what you said is on me.
Shapiro voice: You replied with a picture. That's not how conversations work. If you believe you are right, why not try to convince me instead?
Selected Works of Mao Tse-tung OPPOSE BOOK WORSHIP
May 1930 I. NO INVESTIGATION, NO RIGHT TO SPEAK
Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn't that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?
It won' t do!
It won't do!
You must investigate!
You must not talk nonsense!
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-6/mswv6_11.htm
Mao literally wearing the "Mao Suit" everywhere, just like a Communist Poser.
If you just want power you dont have to pretend to be socialist. See Pinochet, among many examples. Pretending to be socialist would just be unnecessary extra work and having the most powerful countries as enemies instead of friends.
even liberal and conservative historians agree that the damn commies were actual communists: behind closed doors they didn't talk about machiavellian power grabs - they used the same historical materialist framework they would use in public. (for example Kotkin is adamant about this in his Stalin bio. Communists believed in communism. Shocker.)
You're not being brigaded, I literally browse All Comments & All Posts (I have blocked a lot of communities). I don't have any games on my phone I like to post in random comments sections/replies all over the internet and read a lot.
Choosing to vote for, campaign for, run candidates within, or form a political coalition with a party, those are all things you have to weigh differently. Walking away from a party is a valid move. Half of the country doesn't vote for either candidate. Why try to work with people who oppose your political goals on every level and will never give you access to the donor warchest even if you win a primary?
Why vote for someone who paints a target on minorities and anyone to the left of Adolf Hitler? This is my hottest take.
Some people argue you should vote for Trump because he's an isolationist or something, but that's complete nonsense, he's the one who murdered Gen Soleimani
I still don't get what you really want to argue for, though. Is it just to not participate until better candidates come around?
And, having in excess of 15 comments insulting my person in one thread is being brigaded.
I'm gonna be honest, I don't think the race for president is an important place to invest political energy, of which I have a finite amount. Local agitation & elections are more flexible honestly. Stop a city council from destroying some ecosystem further. Elect a lady who hates Jeff Bezos (idk if this made any difference but it took little energy to do my part).
I don't think I actually care who wins ❓ they subsequently either ride the wave of shit, or they wipe out. Regardless of what people think the kinder Zionist Sen. Sanders would have accomplished in the general election (when the dems would have assuredly pulled funding), being in the Oval Office itself would be a completely different story. Nixon wasn't enough of a ghoul for Washington half of the time, mein gott.
Thanks, that take makes sense. Now I wonder if that is the base from which many are operating?
To expand on my seething hot take here the use of LGBTQ+ people & symbols as imperialist mascots by the United States, Europeans, and Israel is an international disaster. Similar to the way Zionists abuse conscientious Jews with their rhetoric
This is why I don't participate in Pride. It's all corporate bullshit.
“If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.”
Fuck Biden. Fuck Trump too, but fuck Biden first and foremost. There will never be a day that I support the genocidal segregationist that thinks he can put delimiters on whether or not I'm Black; especially not after he put half my family in prison with his crime bill horseshit, and is now trying to kill the rest of them with his shit economy.
Death to the Democrats, death to the Republicans, death to the Empire.
I'm now convinced that a lot of this is trolling. People who say "Well I'm Muslim and it bothers me that Biden supports Israel so I won't vote for him" have to be completely out of touch with reality or are completely fake. Same thing here--not voting for Biden ensures that Trump wins, and your theoretical third-party person has no chance of doing anything except dilute the vote.
So? I'm really not buying this narrative or these polls anymore. The respondents are either morons or plants.
Healthy democracy you've got here, where people who have real complaints about the parties of capital and genocide are dismissed as "trolls."
How about "fuck you," supporting israel in any manner should should be automatic disqualification from any possible democratic process. If you don't accept that you don't deserve any of the rights described in the bill of rights.
This is what an unrepentant settler fascist looks and sounds like.
You, as ever, unable to provide a single idea of what the alternative is.
Yet are unwilling to state what that disagreement actually is. You’re definitely a reactionary. You’re here for the angries.
Yeah, the people who don't want to vote for the fascist sending bombs to an ethnostate to kill their friends and families? They're the out of touch morons.
One is a neoliberal that embraces a political philosophy where you turn a blind eye to suffering abroad for stability and prosperity at home.
The other is a wannabe dictator that repeatedly echos hitler and will lead to civil war where your neighbors, family, and yourself are put at risk of death and the destruction of your livelyhood.
One of them is more imminently dangerous to the voters who are tasked with casting votes.
He's not turning a blind eye, he's actively facilitating a genocide.
Many people are more moral than you and refuse to support anyone supporting a genocide.
"Turning a blind eye" - that guy
"There will absolutely not be any conditions on our aid to Isreal, the only condition is defending isreal" - Biden
Sounds like he's got his eye pretty squarely on the prize to me
If there were a viable third option I would vote for them. Being moral in this situation means Trump would get elected and my family would be victims of political violence while that same apathetic blind eye turns away from us. It's a personal threat to my physical safety if Trump is elected.
right, so you care more about you and yours than millions of people in palestine. sounds about white
Yes. It's not my job to stop all the wars in the world. I'm not going to sacrifice myself for that because it wouldn't make a difference.
Motherfucker it's your job as an alleged human being to at least not actively support it
Who says I give a fuck about humanity? We've shown ourselves time and time again to do the selfish thing to fuck people over. Guess what? I'm one of them. My selfish thing is "I don't want to be murdered by terrorists." There are terrorists over there and there are terrorists next door. Which one is imminently a threat to me? Not the one that is across the planet. But the second Trump gets power, he has said he will not prosecute terrorists.
Ugh, another "Humans are inherently bad" edgelord projecting their solipsism and historical illiteracy for all to see. If humans are so bad, why are you so concerned with sparing yourself, or with who dies for that matter? No, your faux-world weary nihilism is just a paper-thin cover for your atavistic selfishness. You don't want to have to think about the mountain of skulls we were born on top of, you just want to go back to consuming cheap treats while the real terrorists do the killing for you, and you can't even be bothered to construct more than the most half-assed epistemology to soothe the little part of you that knows you're choosing to be a monster.
Fascism isn't a risk or a possibility, it's fucking here. It's been here, except it's not evenly distributed. It will continue to be unevenly distributed even after it engulfs you, and you will look back and see your former cohort making excuses and reassuring themselves that there was nothing poor little them could have done to save you. First they came for the communists, then they came for the immigrants, then they came for the lgbtq, now they're coming for the Palestinians. You can either cower and smugly support their genocides until they come for you too, or you can realize that no individual ever makes a difference, and throw your weight in with the mass of humanity who you currently oppose with your dead-end ideological lethargy. "Oh you have to vote for the blue genocider and not the red one", how about fuck that, both of those ghouls and the empire they serve must die so that humanity can live.
if you really want to make the sane and realistic choice at this juncture in history, then it's time to grow the fuck up and become a communist.
I'm not asking you to be a superhero who ends all war, I'm telling you that when you support Joe Biden you're actively supporting a current ongoing genocide that he's facilitating. It's not that I'm criticizing you for not doing enough for others, I'm criticizing you for actively aiding a genocide. All you have to do is stop doing that.
People who decline to aid and abet a genocide are a better people than people who agree to help aid and abet that genocide.
I don't support his actions.
But I have to vote against trump or else my family and myself will be dragged from our home and shot by radicals.
A vote for anyone but Biden is a vote for Trump in my state.I'm working to move away from these radicals but it's expensive and time consuming and I likely will not be able to do that before the 24 election
Voting for someone is literally supporting his actions.
You'll be complicit in a genocide for the rest of your life. I recognize that this won't sway you but I want you to know what good people are going to think of you going forward.
"Wahh stop making me think about why my children will one day put me in a home wahhh"
The gore on your hands will never wash off, hog.
EDIT: Sorry my previous comment was uncivil.
Rephrased: I will not be ordered around by someone voting for genocide.
In the coming days, and for the rest of your life; when you close your eyes, may the voices of those whose blood you've decided to wash your hands in devil you from your rest, and chase you through the emptied catacombs of your mind until the sun comes back up.
I was going to vote for Biden but now I won't because you acted with such brutal incivility. This is the most important election of our lives; democracy itself is on the ballot and you are turning people away from the polls before they've even opened. You are handing Trump the keys to the White House; you are ushering in the dark tide of fascism. Enjoy the next election, you have made it our last.
Oh well shit, better kill millions of others to slightly delay it then. Carry on, my good liberal.
Do you think Biden doing the same shit as Trump but under the banner of civil rights and progressivism could be deletrious to the goals of those movements here?
Admittedly he did throw $4B at green hydrogen as we fall behind Namibia and Mongolia in green energy production. 😒
If there were a viable third option I would vote for them. Being moral in this situation means Trump would get elected and my family would be victims of political violence while that same apathetic blind eye turns away from us. It’s a personal threat to my physical safety if Trump is elected.
I politically align with Repugnicans by about 2%, Democrats by about 10%. I don't want either. But I only have 1/300,000,000 shares of power in America to enact my will and it is "i don't want to be dragged from my home and shot". And yes, that does mean I am voting in the interest of myself not being dragged from my home and shot while the president actively throws bombs on a warzone where that happens to other people on the other side of the planet. It fucking sucks. But being moral here will result in my fucking death.
Biden isn't saving anyone. Reactionaries think neoliberal policies being implemented by Biden are communism, they think Lula is communist.
The democratic party is a shambling pile of donors that's why they need Hillary. They feed off of us.
Biden is worse than Trump, and Trump 2 will ge worse than Biden. Every president is exponentially worse than the last.
Show
"I cannot conceive of the idea that people can dislike my preferred political choice for any valid reason. Not picking my preferred choice would mean a thing I don't prefer would happen. Nobody could possibly want that."
I love that this is how libs are going to deal with their deeply unpopular genocidaire, just pretend he's actually popular and fine. Real winning strategy there, I hope democracy isn't on the line.
People who say "Well I'm Muslim and it bothers me that Biden supports Israel so I won't vote for him" have to be completely out of touch with reality or are completely fake
"If you aren't voting for me, you're not Muslim, Jack"
here--not voting for Biden ensures that Trump wins
Too late -- I didn't vote for Trump so Biden wins
I'm not voting for either which means I'm actually voting for both of them which means I'm legally voting twice.
Why do libs insist on only voting once when they could vote for neither and vote twice. Why are they neglecting their right to vote by only voting half as much as if they didn't vote for anybody.
Also this argument makes lots of sense.
Ultimately this won't change unless young Democrats actually take over the party and shift the overton window back to the left.
This generally, and specifically electoral reform is the only way to get the USA out of its two-party hellhole.
That was tried in 2016. The DNC's got too much of a stranglehold-- they'll just keep putting up malfeasant, genocidal capitalists. There is no alliance in the Democrat party, young or no. Just like the cops, I believe the Democrats are only good for abolition-- not reform.
Honestly, a genocide at home may make people feel a bit empathetic for what happens abroad. But that's not an optimal outcome for anyone.
I feel as though clearing debt for the select few without actually solving the problem is a weak bid anyways. IMO that's buying votes.
But Bidens been what he needed to be: neutral and boring, with some attempts to break monopolies on the sidelines.
Trump is insane. The mans selling crypto Pokemon cards of himself in jail. The two braincell populace will have him voted in.
But Bidens been what he needed to be: neutral and boring,
So we're just ignoring his genocidal tendencies? Yeah, y'all ignoring his genocidal tendencies. Can't wait til that shit comes home to roost for y'all. May the blood you wash your hands in drown you.
