Pass me the cyanide gas because this seems like a highly successful op.
The 30 year old dog walker did an interview on Fox that was pretty cringe but all in all not THAT bad imo but is set off a firestorm and 200k people instantly joined /r/workreform
Here's where it gets fun. The 3 mods of /r/workreform all work at the same bank. One is A CTO and the others claim to be low level employees. Link
The new sub seems like a bunch of libshits. "It’s work reforms not anti capitalism"
"This isn't necessarily an anti-capitalism sub. We may share many of the same ideals and goals, but "
"If you want anticaptialism, go to /r/LateStageCapitalism"
tl;dr a 30 yo dog walker was too much for the libs to handle 😅
yeah, kinda gross that a lot of comments on reddit (and even here) think there's a problem with walking dogs part-time, saying it's not "real work" or something. even on the slightly more "left-leaning" subreddits
god forbid there's a moment of a person's time that isn't sold to the fucking capitalists 🙄
the irony of someone associating with "antiwork" while espousing crude moral workerism lmao
0 hour workweek or death. fuck optics make them interview you in person and show up in a bomb vest.
Doesn't matter if its an op or not because this "movement" was always 100% online and had a huge contingent of NEET nonsense
It was a 1.4M member community that was constantly posting support for unionization efforts across the country.
While no vanguard, it was a significant space on reddit that pulled people away from some of the typical :brainworms:
Again being blunt, if you're 100% online then expressing rhetorical support for unionization is nothing more than screaming into a void.
True but I'm not looking at it from an actionable vanguard perspective.
In the same way most of reddit propagates brainworm lib takes, a large community all shouting "wtf is going on?" has an effect towards common view/perspective. It made people curious, interested, and supportive of strikes an union efforts, which in turn would help actual union drives because there'd be one less "but i could use my dues to buy xbox" dummy.
/r/antiwork was never going to take up arms, but libs need some place to start questioning the status quo. Its a shame it was cut short by baby anarchists who had no understanding of maintaining a movement.
huge contingent of NEET nonsense
r/antiwork was never going to be a movement, but this needs elaboration, otherwise this is a proper :reddit-logo: brained fundamentalist protestant irrational dogshit opinion you have there
Edit: upon elaboration and reflection I actually made a very big mistake in failing to understand what OP meant, I apologize to @LeninsRage and @Parzivus and everyone else for the hateful reactionary language and for my general shitty hostile behaviour. Logging off.
People are alienated from work because the capitalist time and labor regimen is egregiously dehumanizing and saps workers of all autonomy and meaning in their lives.
But the solution to that isn't "I want to sit around and mindlessly pursue pleasure on my computer all day" which is a very real tendency within the incoherent bloc that made up that subreddit. A socialist society means transforming labor relations - control over work schedules, work processes, distributions of goods, services, and wages, democratization and mass participation in all areas of political and economic life. But that also means work. A lot of it. Everyone doing their part.
We rightfully express contempt for terminally-online channer/Yang NEET types who spend all their time online and support UBI solely for the reason that they think it can subsidize their basement-dweller lifestyle. And to be blunt, if you're on the left and display similar sentiments, you're never going to get any respect from working people, just contempt.
So this is whats happening. Since im pissed at seeing neoliberal ideology here, i get angry and become a polemic asshole.
Therefore, pedants like yourself can happily focus on my appaling rude language, on the surface level, because you desperately want to own the person defending slimy NEETs yet cant find anything wrong with my arguments.
Strawman, read what I wrote. Of course being a NEET isnt sustainable or revolutionary, when did I even imply that?
My point is that there is fucking disdain for NEETs as people because theyre "leeches to society" and whatnot, but painted Red. This is evidenced in part by the guy stating the sentiment on antiwork was "NEET nonsense", Its pure ideology.
Someone said that “it’s okay that I don’t want to work, it doesn’t make me less human!” devoid of a greater critique or program will be looked upon with derision and it made u mad
Yes in a way thats 1/4 of my entire argument. Im mad here because theyre using "society" as a shield to mask their own contempt for NEETs. People will look upon that sentiment with derison, no doubt, but who these people are is up for question. I hypothesize that the majority of such people are small business owners and PMC.
Is it because you see a better world, one where work isn’t humiliating debasement and life isn’t directly tied to it, as impossible to reach?
Yes and no. Yes because of capitalist realism, we are doomed etc. No because I see this whole worship of work as silly, we should be moving to automate everything away such that every humam being can live a happy life without toil (possible to be happy outside of work btw). I have a problem with the sanctification of work itself.
it’s not a problem because of the treatment of such people, but because decreased production without decreased consumption leads to lower profits.
The hikkikomori phenomenon in Japan got large enough to cause a measurable decline in profit? Interesting. But yeah people can objectively see that NEETs have no "value" in the eyes of the market. Question is whether their specific material conditions predispose them for compassion or not.
I was also referring more to this specific case of the user being outright disdainful towards NEETs by evoking moralisms found deep in the purest ideology.
don’t get starry eyed about automation. under capitalism it will only serve to enrich the people who own the automatons. once divorced from your productive value the ruling class wont hesitate to export you to a cocoa field or into the ground
Exactly, automation sucks under a system that doesnt value human life. Under socialism it will be based tho, all of humanity will be free of toil.
but expecting the working classes under capitalism to have compassion for neets is pretty absurd.
I don't, I just expect people here not to spout moralistic neoliberal ideology about NEETs. I really don't know what the working class thinks of NEETs as an amalgam.
it’s easy to make a negative moral judgement of neets within a socialist framework, even a marxist one (lumpen). even your garden variety maoists and third worldists would say neets need to be reformed.
Yeah I remember arguing with some maoist on here about the same subject, theres a fine line between criticizing NEETs from a positive, humanist standpoint and being a "leeches on society" neoliberal eugenecist and to me the person who posted the original comment crossed it.
the derision comes not from capitalist moral brainworms but from the experience of reaching out saying “yes comrade! join us and lets create that world!” and having your hand slapped away over and over again.
:doomjak:
whats important to remember when someone get pissed that neets don’t want a revolution
So they were pissed because NEETs dont want a revolution? Wait I thought they were pissed because of "THY SIN IS SLOTH" brainworms since NEETs dont want to work and are thus leeches on society with the sinful tendencies.
i know sometimes it’s an organizational tool, but you don’t need to split up quotes. this isn’t a debate, neither of us will win or lose. we’re just talking.
Its an organisational tool because I want to respond to what you say in full.
My problem with the post wasn't that the person was pissed, they probably weren't, my problem was that I interpreted what they said as disdain for NEETs and the late ideology of r/antiwork, therefore I was angry with them. However it seems that maybe they were expressing frustration with how difficult it was to organize and ally with r/antiwork for "revolutionary action".
Cope, Im taking home a W. here, nobody can actually criticise the substance.
Nah it's more that no one wants to read all that shit and get into it with a debatelord who speaks like a le epic redditor
Lmao you think im unpleasant and overly verbose, fair, but you still have nothing else of substance to say because the real reason youre not reading shit is because youre scared of an L. nothing more.
I am assuming you see unemployment as a form of active resistance in the face of capitalist realism?
No I just dont like it when people go after NEETs because its stupid moralism.
Fair enough... My biggest problem with r/antiwork is that I would always see some landlord and crypto stuff being advocated. Passive income streams substituting for work. Not a huge contingent, but enough to where the mods should have been shutting it down if they had any principles (maybe they did, it's been a month since I was on there).
Idk, I see work like excersize... It sucks and can be filled with shame and self-hatred, but I hope it leads to a marathon someday.
Yeah nah landlord and crypto posting is total cringe, a complete lack of ideological awareness and yes the mods were too lib to be on top of things. I like the general message tho, a million people angry as hell about the status quo and its ideology. Either way whats done is done.
There's nothing neoliberal about wanting westerners to take responsibility for their lifestyle and stop taking advantage of everyone in the global south to make everything for them. What do you think is going to happen when the global south is going to stop making your treats for you? If the west wants anything resembling a first world lifestyle, they're going to have to start manufacturing their own stuff. There will be a lot of work to build a fair and equitable global society in any revolution worth its salt. This isn't about NEETS or anything ( I don't even know what that term means), it's about westerners taking responsibility for their actions.
There’s nothing neoliberal about wanting westerners to take responsibility for their lifestyle....
:michael-laugh: :michael-laugh: :michael-laugh:
I agree westoids shouldnt exploit everyone else, for the record.
This isn’t about NEETS or anything ( I don’t even know what that term means),
No investigation, no right to speak. :mao-wtf:
I think they're just saying that reddit in general is terrible for actually organizing anything and tend just be dunk tanks. Which is fun, but not something to get super beat up about losing.
> accuses everyone of being reactionary
> Uses the words "cuck" and "soyboy" and "cope and seethe"
:jesse-wtf:
Just log off and calm down, it's not worth it
I only accused 1 person of being a reactionary after they accused me first, and using the word "cuck" and "soyboy" is no grounds to accuse someone of being a reactionary. You just want to find reasons to own the person defending an easy target, NEETs so you reach and fish instead of engaging with the substance of what I say.
nonsense of the unemployment
If that's what you got out of NEET, no answer they give you is going to satisfy you anyway lol
moronic soycuck
Oh so you're just a wrecker, good job hiding it this long
cope and seethe
I have never heard anyone use the writing style you do that wasn't from 4chan. You keep going strong though buddy, keep shitting on my "distain towards the unemployed" despite the fact that I don't have a job myself.
keep shitting on my “distain towards the unemployed” despite the fact that I don’t have a job myself.
So why are you defending someone who has some disdain towards NEETs?
First and foremost I'm shitting on you for your sophistry.
I have never heard anyone use the writing style you do that wasn’t from 4chan.
You only care about form, over actual substance, this is a very fucking shallow attempt at an own.
The new sub seems like a bunch of libshits. “It’s work reforms not anti capitalism”
"This isn’t necessarily an anti-capitalism sub. We may share many of the same ideals and goals, but "
“If you want anticaptialism, go to /r/LateStageCapitalism”
tbh the same could be said about the /r/antiwork, with the sub that big you can't escape the libs, but you shouldn't want to avoid them anyway. People won't radicalize themselves and /r/antiwork was doing good work with that and hopefully after all the drama settles there will emerge a sub with better mods.
this is fucking sad because r/antiwork was based enough to:
-
be anti-capitalist, socialist even
-
have an ethos which strikes at the core of the entire puritanical religious fundamentalist superstructure ("humans have to earn the right to exist") in a way that everyone in imperialist nations can relate to
-
never have a huge backslide into reactionary "muh poor and unemployed ppl bad bcuz gvt makes me work for them" ideology despite having 1.4 million members
-
cause problems for companies irl
cause problems for companies irl
And this is why they had to be torpedoed. I am not convinced that this wasn't deliberate; it's too perfect.
-
That is an actual ideology. Essentially, it involves abusing loopholes in welfare and living with as many other people as possible doing the same thing to do as little work as possible with low expenses while using your large amount of free time for whatever you feel like. I think there's a book about it, dunno the name though.
It's naive to believe you can turn mass media against capital when you have no control over the broadcast narrative. That said, I feel really bad for the mod. This can't feel great.
But yeah, Reddit itself is an op, so it makes sense that this would be an op too, despite the fact that most of y'all are from Reddit :headpat:
Absolutely an op. Any "movement" that can be shut down with a few clicks is just a honeypot. Hundreds of thousands of libs scooped up into a toothless reform racket instead of radicalizing,
and the fucked up thing is that intelligence agencies are going to mark those libs as "violent radicals" in their databases.
RAPE CONTENT WARNING facebook screenshots supposedly proving that the mod who did the interview is a sex criminal were posted by an account that's less than a month old (and crossposted to cringe subs of course). i'm not even following this shit the only reason i know about it is because i was hate-scrolling terf tumblr and they picked it up immediately.
more and more this entire debacle looks like an op. i don't think a subreddit was going to form a revolutionary vanguard party or whatever, but it's way too easy for enemy forces to manipulate the dogbrains of :reddit-logo:.
e: and of course there's an active thread on kiwifarms, which i won't be linking to
saying it was an op is copium. The mod who did the interview was one of the original founders of the sub in 2014.
Honestly it's really ridiculous how quick people in leftist spaces are to call something an OP.
People of all kinds (that includes communists) are perfectly capable of being idiots and/or pieces of shit all on their own, no intelligence agency meddling needed. This is something literally all organizations in the history of mankind had to deal with.
Calling everything bad that happens an OP is defeatism mixed with blind paranoia.
i mean i think the way the subreddit's collapse was set up and is being managed is an op. i think abolishwork is probably sincere, and secondary sourcing for the accusation is convincing.
Some of the other mods, who encouraged this mod to do the interview, are feds. Fox specifically reaching out to and requesting an interview from this mod is suspicious. A team of bankers prepared to swoop in and redirect the sub to liberal reformism is suspicious.
Just because this mod is likely not a fed doesn't mean it wasn't an op, and doesn't mean that that there hasn't been any coordinated action on the part of the state and/or capital to nerf the sub as a means of kneecapping the movement.
This person has been posting antiwork content for 7 years and has run abolishwork.com for at least as long.
Even if people were hesitant to call it an OP, you can still consider the nature of reddit. Some "movement" happens on reddit and people will create subs to feed off it. Once the sub blows up, they can monetize it and sell off the top mod positions. At best it's not an OP but a few people trying to bandwagon and make some quick cash/internet cred. At worst this shit was/is heavily astroturfed and infiltrated.
I'm 85% sure this is the programmer, CTO or whatever
https://twitter.com/shawnmilo
https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawn-milochik-938aba187/
This isn't doxxing this is public info, fight me
The Twitter bio has this quote in it lol
ahead of the curve on the cultural revolution
At least there is call for unionization over there. The bare minimum IMO
Best thing to happen to antiwork maybe?
Let the more militant agitators on r/antiwork "help" the mods by separating the wheat from the chaff so to speak.
Wonder if proworker is taken, reform won't fix the mess. Libs never learn and are eternal victims.
I'm personally waiting for the dust to settle before I cast judgement on them. Most likely they work for the bank as low-level employees like they said, and the other person who is at the same bank was just a co-worker who they knew they could trust with moderation duties instead of some rando on the internet. Frankly, if we're going to have any sort of socialist movement gain broad support in the US, we're just going to have to come to terms with the fact that a bunch of us are in the professional managerial class.
It's already better than /r/antiwork in terms of being free of the terminally-online sectarian bullshit the antiwork mods were pushing.
