Hey hexbears just want to update everyone.
We took the weekend to properly consider and are removing: programming.dev , aussie.zone , and lemm.ee from our allow-list.
We will look at refederation with lemm.ee after local-only communities are developed. When that feature is available we would really like to consider changing every hexbear community to local-only except for chapotraphouse, askchapo, news, and the_dunk_tank. The final say on if a community is local only or not is 100% up to the mod team on that community.
The reason for this is that lemm.ee despite having twice our monthly active users has a 700k annual comment rate to hexbear's 1 million, in addition lemm.ee has very little active communities that do not exist on hexbear.
Resulting in lemm.ee benefit of federation being votes and views, with a secondary benefit of comments.
However, as expressed by users belonging to marginalized groups, comments from .ee users are often lib-shit and in some cases outright hostile. While many on hexbear love dunking on these lost libs the duty to protect marginalized users is much more important.
The end vote for programming.dev and aussie.zone was a tie, so we decided to break the tie in favor of defederation. The decision on lemm.ee was much harder as the average user did express desire to remain federated however the admin team decided that a temporary removal from our allow-list was the best option.
As an admin team we have never wanted to prioritize growth, and we wanted to give federation with liberal instances a try, however we consider providing a safer browsing experience for marginalized users more important than the opportunity to dunk.
While user side instance blocking and local sort are options, neither address the issue of federated instance users coming into posts in hexbear communities to make reactionary comments.
Thank you everyone who gave input and please provide any feedback, comments, concerns, etc in comments.
final vote count:
federation
all 32
aussie.zone 27
lemm.ee 41
programming.dev 27
lemmy.blahaj.zone 5
defederation
all 40
aussie.zone 19
lemm.ee 4
programming.dev 19
lemmy.blahaj.zone 43
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Admins made a call and you should stand by it. There's not a solution that will make everyone happy because there is no agreement about what the site is or should be. Those who want it to be a safe space are not going to agree with the people who want a platform for radicalization and dunking.
Personally, I was fine with lem.ee federation, but I don't want it at the expense of my marginalized comrades if that's the choice at hand. But again, if that's the consideration at hand, I wish we had better mechanisms for measuring popular sentiment. @AcidSmiley@hexbear.net brought up a lot of valid concerns, but is she speaking on behalf of a much larger group or just for herself? I find it hard to say.
I guess all this is to say, I'm fine with the decision, but I don't think we should be making decisions that affect everyone's experience here in such an ad hoc way. Whether it's one Hexbear one vote, full dictatorship of the mods, or some third thing the criteria for decision making should be clearer and better structured.
Well, i definitely wasn't speaking for the majority. Maybe i wasn't even speaking for a majority of the trans people on here, i frankly don't care about that tbh. My views on transness are driven by what i need to not only survive, but to thrive and be happy and that is very different from how we are commonly supposed to be and allowed to feel, because the ways we are supposed to be and allowed to feel are part of controlling us and exterminating as many of us as possible without the liberals noticing. I refuse to walk into that trap. And if that means that i live my life as a tripple gay nonbinary transfem bog witch kinkster headed deeply into her queer villain arc, so be it. It's honestly kinda fun when i'm not bothered by all the straight people out there and the little pissbabies who want to be like them.
Anyway, speaking on behalf of a large group would be the very opposite of what i'm on this world for. Basic facts of my day to day life put me permanently at odds with democracy-as-majority-rule. Slightly less so with democracy-as-finding-consensus, or democracy-as-doing-right-by-as-many-people-as-possible, but let me be perfectly clear here: When you're one of the weirder subsets of a minority that is roundabout 1% of the population and that 1% isn't the 1% hoarding all the wealth, democracy means you're fucked.
I've learned that the hard way over and over again during the last 3 years when i was rapidly yanked out of experiecing the world as a white imperial core
leftistfucking nerd who at least mostly passed for a straight-ishmanvery old boy and was thrown into experiencing the world from the perspective of a political football seeing increasingly heavy use. Having hope for liberals taking political action to improve my living conditions is always a disappointment and a deeply sobering experience. It leads to the painful realization that even the part of our institutions that is not openly arguing for my opression is a spectrum that looks exactly like this:So yeah, i'll be honest here, i'm glad that the survery results were not taken as a binding vote. What @CARCOSA@hexbear.net has posted itt has shown me once more that the mods of hexbear are people i can actually count on, and some of the reactions here, including yours, my cherished French guy talking about prison a lot, have shown me that there are still many people on this site who deeply deserve my affection and respect. The overall discussion has also shown me that a sizeable number of hexbear users are contrarian, irony-poisoned, uncaring LARPers who are liberal in the most violent ways and who will continue trying to push the site in a direction that aligns with their relative privilege, whether it's as white cis dudes or as marginalized people who have in some way managed to at least grown numb and callous enough to not feel like an open wound after walking into conversations happening within dominant society. I get that this is a survival skill, i'm not judging people for learning to not give a fuck, but i'm not like that, i am a complicated, emotional mess as people tend to be when they go through puberty again in their 40s, but given that i've been hormonally incapable of feeling the way i need to feel for most of my life, i am not willing to give that up even if it hurts me. I'm sorry when it hurts people around me, and that has happened way too much in my recent post history, partially because this entire shitshow of a struggle session coincided with a bit of a rough patch happening in my life, but that's how it is now. It doesn't excuse me being an ass, but i hope it explains it, especially to those who got caught in the crossfire without deserving any of it, like my dear comrade @Nakoichi@hexbear.net.
This still sounds angrier and as more of a doomer post than it's supposed to be, but i already had to rewrite the entire thing because i misclicked once after finishing it for the first time. Honestly, i'm fine rn, there's beautiful and precious things happening in my life and if i wasn't still glowing from them, i wouldn't have risked logging into this account after going on a verabl abuse spree a few days earlier and wouldn't even have seen that you pinged me. I don't really know where i'm headed on this site except that i'll not be publicly active under this account for opsec reasons, i've just shared a lot since i've come here and even when you're careful that's risky when reactionaries want to gut you. But i may be checking my inbox once in a while just in case.
tl;dr: Democracy is a fuck and if you want to run a site full of all kinds of marginalized people by majority vote, you are still full of liberal brain poison and need to do some fucking self crit.
I think it's time to
now. Please stay safe out there, comrades. But make sure to actually go out there. Make sure to tell the ones you care about how you feel for them. Make sure to remember that a better world is possible.
I hope you'll be around comrade, even if it's under another alias. All the people who have annoyed me here over the years are all gone now, and you may yet have the same pleasure.
Well said
post of the year
Puberty sucks I kinda just zoned out till I got my pair of big tits
Being a teenager again when you aren't a teenager is also a weird feeling. Being trans is tough y'all even without dealing with bigotry, take naps regularly
(unironically, helps with puberty issues and also resets your mood when having a bad day)
Where I get caught in what crossfire?
Your perspective on the federation issue was very enlightening and I appreciate how much passion you have for this place and what it means for marginalized people. I hope you stick around whether its on this account or another one, you're a wonderful valued comrade and I appreciate you
Separate from the issue of federation (where your perspective is fair enough), I'm genuinely appalled at people so roundly supporting the anti-democratic horseshit. Aren't the people on this website supposed to be fucking socialists? Do they have no concept of class consciousness? They are just completely ideologically incoherent if they think this shit flies.
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We love our authoritarian tankie mods. Make the decisions you want to make, I trust your judgement.
~
It's been made pretty open and safe to contribute to the federation discussion, I don't understand why folks would feel the need to not participate in the thread and instead through backchannels. If that many folks didn't feel comfortable with lemmy.ee federation they should've
d
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I value both your perspective, commitment to ensuring a safe space for marginalized comrades, and work put into this project. I understand and empathize with your position as I can't imagine it's easy and you and the rest of the team have demonstrated a desire to protect our marginalized comrades; but I don't think it's impossible for Hexbear to be able to act as both outreach and a safe space. I value my own safety from fascists and absurd bigots, but I don't think mass defederation from cooperative lib instances is the way to do it.
Has the team considered conducting a study on marginalized populations on Hexbear to try and evaluate if defederation is really wanted from the marginalized groups on Hexbear? It seems like a lot of folks aren't arguing on the importance of keeping folks safe, but instead on how many want that specific tactic to be used. Perhaps if we take a survey of the real lived experiences of those who we're focusing on we'd have concrete evidence to point to for admin decisions atleast.
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If anybody on the team is willing to get a cryptpad account or is trusted to host cryptpad then a cryptpad form may be a solid option. I'm already in the /c/traa matrix, if y'all'd need help setting this up or want another resource to work on this I'd be happy to help.
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it was probably not a mistake. I liked stumbling across dogshit .ee takes but it probably was unhealthy for me I usually ended up wishing violence upon them, and that's for a slophog like me, can't imagine its good for normal people either
Basically, it turns out a DM vote is worth more than a comment vote. That's what it boils down to. There's no point in tabulating the votes if the admins aren't going to honor them anyways. They might as well just have a discussion thread and make their decision based on the vibes of the thread. It would've saved them the trouble of keeping track of votes and be more honest.
I don't think it is coincidence that the pro federation users didn't go to the effort of dming the mods. Like you might prefer federation but not being federated is unlikely to make the site inaccessible to you because of a lack of shitlibs posting reactionary comments.
I slightly lean toward federation but overall don't care that much. My vote should be weighted less accordingly.
I don't think there's anything dishonest in running a poll then deciding based on new information not to do as the poll suggests, when you clearly explain your reasons and have a dialogue about them like we're doing now.
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Glad to see people acknowledging the power of the trans posting vanguard
Give them two votes, ezpz
It was never a vote. It was a gauge of opinions. The
opinions just didn't have as solid a argument behind them. If we really do want to go a dunking we can make accounts on other instances. The people harmed by federation dont have that option.
do you see how "I want to dunk on libs" and "federation makes me feel unsafe on this website" aren't equal positions that require the same consideration? even anarchists don't go this far.
No, it has nothing to do with dunking on libs for its own sake, but on sustaining this website. In simplified terms, people come for/from the dunking and stay for the safe space. By defederating from the last major "normie" instance (lemmygrad is also cut off, lemmy.ml already has a reputation for being "tankie," and every other instance is too small), it cuts off a source of newcomers.
This does not bode well for the future of this site. Unlike most people, I saw pre-federation Hexbear as slowly circling down the drain with members cannibalizing each other over pointless struggle sessions. As someone who only occasionally lurked in the original subreddit, I still do not and perhaps never will understand what people saw in pre-federation Hexbear. Hot take, but the vibes back then completely sucked, full of awkward passive aggressive energy that erupted when people started getting personal over treats. Frankly, pre-federation Hexbear didn't have a future.
Federation introduced some needed life to the site even if the vast majority of Ledditors are complete shitheads. As we embark on post-federation Hexbear, I think Hexbear is going to resume circling down the drain with members once again cannibalizing each other over pointless struggle sessions. Non-federation outreach didn't do jack shit during pre-federation Hexbear, so I do not have confidence that non-federation outreach will be somehow different in post-federation Hexbear.
Awoo's comment is going to be prophetic if the admins actually defed for real.
Respectfully, this is may or may not be true but ultimately it is a supposition. For myself and many others, the dunking is alright but not in the least why I am here.
Yeah I feel like this is mostly an issue of tooling. There is some desire of mine that wants this platform to be more open so we can get the word out to more trans people, and the other desire is to form an anti transphobia task force that hunts down every transphobe and forces them to drink their own pee. This is mutually exclusive due to bad tooling