Black people did exist in Tolkien's universe, I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure it was people from the southern lands and the east, so it's not far-fetched at all. But of course blood and soil types don't want to hear this.
The black people in Tolkien are the "Swarthy Men" (their actual name) that come from the East and allied themselves with the literal incarnation of Evil. His racial views were uh, problematic, to say the least.
Right I knew that, but I thought it was explained that people with darker skin hailed from those lands? The world of Arda is based on earth, with middle earth being europe, the east being asia and I'm assuming the south being africa.
Yeah you're right in the sense that there are black people in Tolkien's universe, I was just adding on that in that universe the only black we see are barbarian savage racist tropes and not like, actual people.
I'll take your word for it since the last time I read LotR was when I was like 16 and that's what I remembered from it. Definitely don't mean to be the be all end all take here!
I love the Silmarillion far more than the original series tbh. I reread it every few years, just a tremendous piece of work. Tolkien created a masterwork that really fleshes out Middle Earth (and the other continents) as a world with a history and myth that I can sink my teeth into. I love that it does do that to the elves, showing them to be just as vain and greedy as men. I'm a big epic poetry kind of guy and the Silmarillion scratches an itch closer to stories like Beowulf and The Iliad than LotR does.
Yeah the shit he was writing was seriously a work of it's time, it's clear he had racist views on people. I've also read on here that he based orcs being dark skinned on soldiers in WWI being dirty from trench warfare, not sure how true that is. Shame all of this wasn't fleshed out more, I know there's campaigns that take place in the east in some of the LOTR tabletop games.
I think there's some truth to it, but Tolkien was always adamant that LOTR isn't a metaphor for anything in particular, it just is what it is. Obviously that doesn't mean certain elements were inspired by and taken from real life, however.
IIRC later on he started writing in notes and letters about expanding on the east with the blue mages helping active resistance movements and this being critical to the defeat of Sauron by disrupting reinforcements, but its still pretty clear what he focused on writing narratively about and what was written as more off to the side lore.
Black people did exist in Tolkien's universe, I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure it was people from the southern lands and the east, so it's not far-fetched at all. But of course blood and soil types don't want to hear this.
The black people in Tolkien are the "Swarthy Men" (their actual name) that come from the East and allied themselves with the literal incarnation of Evil. His racial views were uh, problematic, to say the least.
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Right I knew that, but I thought it was explained that people with darker skin hailed from those lands? The world of Arda is based on earth, with middle earth being europe, the east being asia and I'm assuming the south being africa.
Yeah you're right in the sense that there are black people in Tolkien's universe, I was just adding on that in that universe the only black we see are barbarian savage racist tropes and not like, actual people.
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I'll take your word for it since the last time I read LotR was when I was like 16 and that's what I remembered from it. Definitely don't mean to be the be all end all take here!
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Damn this is some good stuff, thanks for the link comrade!
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I love the Silmarillion far more than the original series tbh. I reread it every few years, just a tremendous piece of work. Tolkien created a masterwork that really fleshes out Middle Earth (and the other continents) as a world with a history and myth that I can sink my teeth into. I love that it does do that to the elves, showing them to be just as vain and greedy as men. I'm a big epic poetry kind of guy and the Silmarillion scratches an itch closer to stories like Beowulf and The Iliad than LotR does.
Yeah the shit he was writing was seriously a work of it's time, it's clear he had racist views on people. I've also read on here that he based orcs being dark skinned on soldiers in WWI being dirty from trench warfare, not sure how true that is. Shame all of this wasn't fleshed out more, I know there's campaigns that take place in the east in some of the LOTR tabletop games.
I think there's some truth to it, but Tolkien was always adamant that LOTR isn't a metaphor for anything in particular, it just is what it is. Obviously that doesn't mean certain elements were inspired by and taken from real life, however.
IIRC later on he started writing in notes and letters about expanding on the east with the blue mages helping active resistance movements and this being critical to the defeat of Sauron by disrupting reinforcements, but its still pretty clear what he focused on writing narratively about and what was written as more off to the side lore.