I'm just tired of equally privileged white middle class lefties, blowing off a sizable amount of poor people or middle class people who did join to escape poverty or downward movement for idiotic idealistic purity reasons- rather than showing nuance and understanding for complex problems, which should be something attributable to the left.
And it's not like poor people don't try to join the military, it's not like poor people are like "Oh hell yeah solidarity fight the power brother, i care about brown people in other countries" they just usually have something like a record that keeps them from joining the military, an injury, maybe they're overweight from poor American 50c Ruffles bags for breakfast diet or flat out-- they're scared of getting hurt/dying/leaving family. There are so many reasons that are not *what lefties want them to be * or why poor people don't join the military.
The reason why "they were propagandized," usually gets brought up is because Lefties like to paint with broad strokes and condemn all vets, even though there are leftists vets and potentially sympathetic leftist vets. You're already creating problems for yourself and potential movement you're interested in by trying to keep these people out with moronic privileged purity politics.
And even if they are middle class, white, you can still be propagandized by US propaganda, you can grow up in a right-wing household and you can also come to see see why it's wrong. When these people join, "murdering brown people" is exaggeration and leftist propaganda. I know you can't imagine that but you've been privileged enough to not have right-winger family or the option to see a different political perspective. Why the fuck do you think there are so many liberals in this country, but not leftists, when being left is the logical conclusion to being a liberal? I just find it hard to believe, that if you lived the same life of these people who join the military, you would make any different choices.
There's nothing special about you personally that makes you a leftist. You are not inherently a better person. You have different lived experiences. That's the big tragedy of Nazism in Germany and Fascism.
But it happens enough that when these people go overseas feeling already milquetoast about the military, they often see what the military does overseas and their views change drastically. Lefties do the rights job by playing the stupid purity game.
If an armed conflict ever arrived in the US, I'm guessing the right wingers who aren't gun shy, that supposedly take pride in eating shit, being dirty and don't see problems joining the military are going to be plenty more useful than the plethora of diet restricted, colorful haired, brainy bookworm, gamer redditor leftists.
I’m just tired of equally privileged white middle class lefties,
Or we're not American and want the US to stop being aggressive towards our countries. Seriously why is so much leeway given to the direct enforcers of US imperialism here, I just don't understand it, at all. Literally everything you said in your posts applies to cops, yet ACAB is common here. This whole argument makes me feel my life is less valuable than an Americans and it's seriously starting to piss me the fuck off.
People are disagreeing with you because your criticism is so un-nuanced, inconsistent with materialism and most importantly, self-harming. Even the discussion of ACAB has nuance, ie. you may be a good person yourself but if you support bad systems, you're a bad person. This is not the kind of discussion that happens in these spaces and is regularly pushed back. Which is why we're having this conversation now.
The difference with the military and the cops is that people are either trying to leave the military or are already out and lefties want to harangue them for making a mistake rather than acknowledge an ally. That same situation just simply doesn't exist for the police (atleast in the US) on any meaningful scale. It's unfortunately more difficult to become a Police than a Soldier in the US. But even then, there's nuance to the discussion.
Your life obviously isn't worth less than an Americans, but overall you're only making your situation worse by not choosing to use a critical lense. And of course, you're safe here, we agree with you, imperialism is bad. No one is fundamentally disagreeing with you here. But you need to be backed up when you start saying dumb shit. You wouldn't of made a different decisions if you were born another person and later became a soldier, there's nothing inherently special about you that made you a leftie. Some of you guys genuinely believe that you are just good people and the decision was obvious, when that's not true and fundamentally not materialism.
Nice strawman, refering to comrades from the global south like this. Very cool and normal.
But stuff like this is my point, I didn't even know you weren't American and you want to act irrationally like this rather than simply accept a misunderstanding. It reeks of melodramatic lefty posting.
Oviously if a troop wants to leave the military that's good and they should be supported as long as they acknowledge the mistakes made, no problems there. Also you don't know me personally at all, how can you even say what decisions I would make. That's just a hypothetical with no value to what is being discussed here. How is my critique inconsistent with materialistic thought, most of the US military is made up of middle upper class chuds whose class interests align with those in power more often than not. While there are people that join the military for economic reasons, they are no where near the majority according to almost all studies done on the makeup of the US military. While someone that joins the military may be a good person outside of the military itself, they are still directly enabling US imperialism and are thus bad until they leave. I'm being rude and melodramatic because I have to live in the ruins of an ex apartheid state supported by the US government (they even covered up the nuclear tests, research the Vela incident, support in the Angola border wars, etc) that faces constant capitalist aggression (we just took another IMF loan ffs) and tons of people here want to go out of their way to defend US troops that engage in this around the globe. I never see the same discussion around cops here, and I'm going to guess it's because the website is America centric and have had bad experiences with cops personally so they don't go out of their way to point out every single nuance in the police force. Yet with the troops half the website wants to discuss every single little nuance and potential factor. I'm just surprised be the leeway troops get on here when compared to other groups.
I'm seeing myself out, because we don't agree on a fundamental issue. Either way, solidarity, fuck US imperialism.
If you were born someone else- you had a different family, different friends, in a different country, a different environment- you would be a different person. With your beliefs, I can deduce that all American gang members are bad people because they commit crime and kill people. But obviously and extremely commonly championed in these spaces, that is dumb. We can separate the negative actions from the material conditions, we can provide nuance and we can understand why GENERALLY people would make a decision to join a gang.
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I'm just tired of equally privileged white middle class lefties, blowing off a sizable amount of poor people or middle class people who did join to escape poverty or downward movement for idiotic idealistic purity reasons- rather than showing nuance and understanding for complex problems, which should be something attributable to the left.
And it's not like poor people don't try to join the military, it's not like poor people are like "Oh hell yeah solidarity fight the power brother, i care about brown people in other countries" they just usually have something like a record that keeps them from joining the military, an injury, maybe they're overweight from poor American 50c Ruffles bags for breakfast diet or flat out-- they're scared of getting hurt/dying/leaving family. There are so many reasons that are not *what lefties want them to be * or why poor people don't join the military.
The reason why "they were propagandized," usually gets brought up is because Lefties like to paint with broad strokes and condemn all vets, even though there are leftists vets and potentially sympathetic leftist vets. You're already creating problems for yourself and potential movement you're interested in by trying to keep these people out with moronic privileged purity politics.
And even if they are middle class, white, you can still be propagandized by US propaganda, you can grow up in a right-wing household and you can also come to see see why it's wrong. When these people join, "murdering brown people" is exaggeration and leftist propaganda. I know you can't imagine that but you've been privileged enough to not have right-winger family or the option to see a different political perspective. Why the fuck do you think there are so many liberals in this country, but not leftists, when being left is the logical conclusion to being a liberal? I just find it hard to believe, that if you lived the same life of these people who join the military, you would make any different choices.
There's nothing special about you personally that makes you a leftist. You are not inherently a better person. You have different lived experiences. That's the big tragedy of Nazism in Germany and Fascism.
But it happens enough that when these people go overseas feeling already milquetoast about the military, they often see what the military does overseas and their views change drastically. Lefties do the rights job by playing the stupid purity game.
If an armed conflict ever arrived in the US, I'm guessing the right wingers who aren't gun shy, that supposedly take pride in eating shit, being dirty and don't see problems joining the military are going to be plenty more useful than the plethora of diet restricted, colorful haired, brainy bookworm, gamer redditor leftists.
Or we're not American and want the US to stop being aggressive towards our countries. Seriously why is so much leeway given to the direct enforcers of US imperialism here, I just don't understand it, at all. Literally everything you said in your posts applies to cops, yet ACAB is common here. This whole argument makes me feel my life is less valuable than an Americans and it's seriously starting to piss me the fuck off.
Nice strawman, refering to comrades from the global south like this. Very cool and normal.
People are disagreeing with you because your criticism is so un-nuanced, inconsistent with materialism and most importantly, self-harming. Even the discussion of ACAB has nuance, ie. you may be a good person yourself but if you support bad systems, you're a bad person. This is not the kind of discussion that happens in these spaces and is regularly pushed back. Which is why we're having this conversation now.
The difference with the military and the cops is that people are either trying to leave the military or are already out and lefties want to harangue them for making a mistake rather than acknowledge an ally. That same situation just simply doesn't exist for the police (atleast in the US) on any meaningful scale. It's unfortunately more difficult to become a Police than a Soldier in the US. But even then, there's nuance to the discussion.
Your life obviously isn't worth less than an Americans, but overall you're only making your situation worse by not choosing to use a critical lense. And of course, you're safe here, we agree with you, imperialism is bad. No one is fundamentally disagreeing with you here. But you need to be backed up when you start saying dumb shit. You wouldn't of made a different decisions if you were born another person and later became a soldier, there's nothing inherently special about you that made you a leftie. Some of you guys genuinely believe that you are just good people and the decision was obvious, when that's not true and fundamentally not materialism.
But stuff like this is my point, I didn't even know you weren't American and you want to act irrationally like this rather than simply accept a misunderstanding. It reeks of melodramatic lefty posting.
Oviously if a troop wants to leave the military that's good and they should be supported as long as they acknowledge the mistakes made, no problems there. Also you don't know me personally at all, how can you even say what decisions I would make. That's just a hypothetical with no value to what is being discussed here. How is my critique inconsistent with materialistic thought, most of the US military is made up of middle upper class chuds whose class interests align with those in power more often than not. While there are people that join the military for economic reasons, they are no where near the majority according to almost all studies done on the makeup of the US military. While someone that joins the military may be a good person outside of the military itself, they are still directly enabling US imperialism and are thus bad until they leave. I'm being rude and melodramatic because I have to live in the ruins of an ex apartheid state supported by the US government (they even covered up the nuclear tests, research the Vela incident, support in the Angola border wars, etc) that faces constant capitalist aggression (we just took another IMF loan ffs) and tons of people here want to go out of their way to defend US troops that engage in this around the globe. I never see the same discussion around cops here, and I'm going to guess it's because the website is America centric and have had bad experiences with cops personally so they don't go out of their way to point out every single nuance in the police force. Yet with the troops half the website wants to discuss every single little nuance and potential factor. I'm just surprised be the leeway troops get on here when compared to other groups.
I'm seeing myself out, because we don't agree on a fundamental issue. Either way, solidarity, fuck US imperialism.
If you were born someone else- you had a different family, different friends, in a different country, a different environment- you would be a different person. With your beliefs, I can deduce that all American gang members are bad people because they commit crime and kill people. But obviously and extremely commonly championed in these spaces, that is dumb. We can separate the negative actions from the material conditions, we can provide nuance and we can understand why GENERALLY people would make a decision to join a gang.
Cheers, good night and solidarity