And let’s give cops money to do it!
Edit: this post has nothing to do with “revolution” or adventurism. The libs like to point the finger at replublicans and say “they won’t let us do background checks!” As if that will stop any of this
Standing knee deep in the blood of murdered children screaming "under no pretext etc etc" so you can fantasize about one day doing an adventurism LARP against your local police department
Call me any three letter agency you want, but it's a certain level of USian brainworms to not support gun control even slightly in your perpetual nightmare state
there are countries with high gun counts but dont have many issues like this. its because they have less of a nazi problem. that is the problem: its the nazis. not the guns. :shrug-outta-hecks:
also gotta point out that a lot of these shooters are very young and very online. so its also a convergence of nazism in online spaces. we gotta look to how china deradicalized various heavily armed extremists for a solution to this problem, imo. theyre the only government that has done an actionable solution that didnt involve incredible violence
That's just not true. No country has anywhere near the amount of guns the USA has
Top 10 Countries with Highest Gun Ownership (Civilian guns owned per 100 people):
- United States - 120.5
- Falkland Islands - 62.1
- Yemen - 52.8
- New Caledonia - 42.5
- Serbia - 39.1
- Montenegro - 39.1
- Uruguay - 34.7
- Canada - 34.7
- Cyprus - 34
- Finland - 32.4
Literally more guns than people in the USA, and twice as much as the next country, a D more guns per capita than active warzones. That's straight up unsustainable for any form of stable society full stop.
Yeah and you think liberals will do an effective gun reduction campaign that takes guns from nazis? No, no they wont. If there is truly a relationship for mass shootings, then Serbia should have somewhere around 78% less mass shootings, right? USA has 198 this year but afaik Serbia hasn't had any this year.
The problem is nazis. All these dudes have far-right nationalist agendas.
Serbia had 3.23 firearm related deaths per 100 000 people, the USA had 12.21 firearm related deaths per 100 000 people. In terms of total gun violence, that example seems to track pretty closely with the amount of guns.
Idk, I just find it completely incomprehensible that the USA has more gun related deaths per capita than where I live right now, a country which has a reputation for a lot of violent crime.
Pretty much every AES state still standing has strict gun control. Fidel Castro tried to give guns to civilian groups as self defence but quickly backtracked after civilian shootings. You now have to get a type of license to own a firearm, depending on your intended use for it. And this is the most lax AES state on gun control. China has extremely strict gun control. So does Vietnam, the DPRK and Laos. Bolivia enacted some gun control in 2013. Venezuela even stopped allowing civilians to obtain more guns after colour revolution attempts. I genuinely can't think of an AES state today that does not have some form of gun control.
China's solution to extremism is re education and reintegration into society using state power. If you don't trust the liberals to take guns, how can you trust them to re educate neo Nazis?
its pretty easy to join the militia (re: if youre a communist) in china and they give you guns in the militia. same with cuba. 'gun control' in socialist states means 'guns for socialists'. i fully support gun control if it means only socialists get them.
but gun control in the usa means only psychopathic mass murderers in the military and police and fascists in national guards get them, while socialists get none
The US has a lot of violent crime, it's just highly stratified. If you're white and don't live in an inner city or an isolated rural area, gun violence is rare. If you live in Chicago or Philadelphia or many other places, gun violence is as common as El Salvador for similar reasons (low grade civil war stoked by US imperial meddling).
The big spectacle of these mass shootings is another example of Americans acting like they are special because of the media yapping. Brasil regularly has mass shootings and the police send actual like militarized squads into favelas to attack gangs. But yes, America is the "only country where this happens" and the solution is clearly some lib flsvor-of-the-month campaign 🙄
The other thing is that these kind of large scale, spectacle shootings were almost unheard of until Columbine and the media circus that came with. Yeah, kids always got in gang beefs or fights over kid shit and some brought guns to school to flex, but Americans owned guns and had public schools for many years without these large scale nihilistic attacks. Something else changes.
Do you think American liberals would do an effective deradicalization program in the style of Chinese anti-terrorism policy? No fucking way, that would never even come close to happening, and if it did, it would be the exact same scenario of the state enforcing the law on the left and POC instead of reactionaries you envision with gun control, but even worse. I agree with you that the problem isn't only the number of guns and the laws, it's also the absurd number of insane, violent reactionaries in this country. I agree that implementing gun control in the US would be nearly impossible and also affect the left and POC more than white reactionaries. But if that's the case, don't we have to admit that there really is "No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens," until a communist revolution happens? True it may be, that is damn far away, I don't know how you tell that to people whose children are gunned down that the only solution is decades away at best.
Yeah and you think liberals will do an effective gun reduction campaign that takes guns from nazis? No, no they wont.
Gun control wont fix it because the liberals are never gonna implement it effectively. The high amount of fascists will just swap to other means even if there are limits because they are dedicated mass killers.
I never said it would, I don't believe it would. I'm just expressing that the left probably needs a more proactive message on guns than just "nothing will work, so nothing can be done until the revolution comes and you have to risk even more gun violence but by the state instead of spree shootings"
yeah, I think it's fucked up to call people feds for reacting emotionally to such an event by wanting to curb gun proliferation in a country uniquely diseased about guns.
For all the shit we love to pile on Americans for being brainwormed, the culture of gun obsession is perhaps the biggest worm and weirdly enough the one everyone here wants to preserve? Like, yes, I agree, gun control in this country would be ineffective but LMAO There are no fucking leftists in this country, this country will never have a revolution, and minorities are already shot for having guns regardless of whether they procured them illegally. I don't know what the solution to this is.
Mass shootings are too deep an issue for the liberal state and media to handle meaningfully. If you want to meaningfully change things it requires spreading class consciousness, confronting white supremacy and settler colonialism, patriarchy, xenophobia, etc. The only realistic "easy" option at the moment to try to curb it is gun control.
As an aside, I don't understand why US leftists have this obsession with access to guns. Why should you care about state legitimacy when acquiring weapons to use against it? If it's used in opposition to the state we'd be treated the same whether the gun came from Mexico or Walmart.
As an aside, I don’t understand why US leftists have this obsession with access to guns. Why should you care about state legitimacy when acquiring weapons to use against it? If it’s used in opposition to the state we’d be treated the same whether the gun came from Mexico or Walmart.
It really makes no sense why american leftists would be so obsessed with the legality of guns.
"I have never killed a bird nor shot a rabbit. I never liked fishing and always let others kill even the chickens which I ate. Nearly all my schoolmates in the South carried pistols. I never owned one. I could never conceive myself killing a human being. But in 1906 I rushed back from Alabama to Atlanta where my wife and six-year old child were living. A mob had raged for days killing Negroes. I bought a Winchester double-barreled shotgun and two dozen rounds of shells filled with buckshot. If a white mob had stepped on the campus where I lived I would without hesitation have sprayed their guts over the grass."
I've been attacked enough that I consider guns to be a high priority to defend myself against white supremacists who would attack me, thanks. Has nothing to do with the state, has everything to do with decentralized violence against minorities
Honestly, my perspective is shaped as lgbt (the one you can get away with the easiest in public) and the need for others in the community to be able to practice self defense
It’s a good thing this country is nearing its expiration date- once the country becomes something else, then it CAN have a revolution :think-about-it:
...sorry. I just keep thinking of this Sacha Baron Cohen bit from four years ago, and how not a goddamned thing has changed, other than the reactionaries digging in their heels even harder. And you know goddamned well that these "constitutional carry" laws are going to be used as justification for further astronomical police budgets, and as an excuse for those militarized cops to gun down POC carte blanche (well, even more than they already do).
I don't have any solutions or anything constructive to add, and I doubt that even Marx would have been cool with the "under no pretext" quote being thrown around in light of near-daily mass shootings of innocent people in literally the only country on the planet where this is a regular problem.
If you were a three letter agency you’d be promoting adventurism…
By all means make it harder to do this shit, but some of the narrative I’ve seen espoused by “the left” would just hurt minorities without addressing much of the logistical ways these weapons are acquired
Guarantee that your measures won't harm the People of color that live here! Just like Californian gun control, just like 3 strikes, just like stop and frisk. Why should I as a person of color support your draconian measures which will inevitably fall on me and my family given Amerikkkan history. You won't even go out and institute drug decriminalization. Why not outlaw White supremacy and these racist laws first?
You won't even allow me access to voting like non-POC Amerikkkans enjoy... To push your police state even more onto our backs so that you can enjoy the peaceful existence that you crave while we live in fear of random economic driven violence, random white supremacist violence, and police state violence is exposing your own delusion. ..
PoC are harmed by rampant gun violence and mass shootings too; it's a white supremacist country, there's no solution that won't harm PoC. You're perfectly justified in being cautious of how these laws will inevitably used to harm PoC, but at large they will still have an effect on the proliferation of guns broadly. It's the bare minimum the hideous liberal state could do to prevent deaths because it won't/can't do anything more substantive like trying to confront the socioeconomic reasons behind mass shootings.
And I'm not saying this is a substitute for any sort of proper revolutionary action, just that these mass murders are needlessly killing people in our own class and the bourgeois are content to let it happen because they're unaffected, so any sort of life saving measures are worth some support until revolutionary action is a realistic option.
If you're saying that there is no solution that won't harm POC, then you're asking us to sign off on a solution that harms us for the benefit of the group that already receives disproportionate benefits already.
"yes, the police will target you, kill you at higher rates due to the targeted interaction, and your children will be traumatized by the body cavity searches, but it's worth it so that random violence doesn't escape the minority communities that we've created!"
Since you're hellbent on violating the "Simon slavemaster says" Constitution, I'ld rather you target these searches and violations to the white young men who disproportionately commit these gruesome events, rather than us. Thanks...
The feds already have access to records of every firearm bought, every electronic communication, every financial transaction and every electronic piece of media in the Western world. What more do they need?
Why not ban under age of 25 flat out, seems school shootings are typically done by very young people. Make some following adjustment over improper storage, so parents/guardians don’t just throw them around. I understand defense arguments, but like how frequently comrades have repelled chud attacks due to owning a gun between 18 and 25?
of course, any such law would result in street harassment of poor people, however just banning sales without enforcement (gun checks) on buyers, but very strict enforcements on sellers can slowly flush out ease of access.
Also, idk who studied how shooting perpetrators even get access to guns, seems like its parents typically?
it still raises the barrier which at the end of the day is all you can do
even in places like aus / NZ if someone is committed enough they will get a gun.
it's like suicide, the harder it is to do the lower the chance you'll do it
Yeah but people also do mass casualty events with cars and shit all the time. Mostly out of stupidity but also through maliciousness.
Though I am fully on the ban cars train :train-shining:
i'm not sure what your point is... cars also have a high requisite, and if they were banned a number of people would probably make fertilizer bombs too.
people who wanna do fucked up stuff have 2 limitations, how hard it is to do it, how hard it is to get the resources.
is it really a high requisite when almost everyone in america has a car?
yes? i know many adults who don't have a car bc it is too expensive / they don't have a license
cars are like so much harder to drive, you need a license, title, insurance + be able to afford the car itself + everything else
not if youre stealing your parent's car to go murder kids. like this shit has happened a lot in europe, again: perpetrated by nazis
again what's your point?? restricting one thing is pointless bc other things exist?
guns are far easier and more dangerous to use as murder toys than a car period lol. one is made for murder.
this just seems like arguing for the sake of arguing
done talking to you. youre a liberal and you are fine with persistent stochastic violence against minorities that being armed alleviates :shrug-outta-hecks:
its the nazis. :pit:
i'm a liberal for understanding having restrictions on guns can be a good thing rolf
yeah arguing for nothing to change after the 201st mass shooting in america this year really strikes me as the leftist position pog
next time just copy paste under no pretext x10 instead of making an incoherent argument
yeah whatever worm, go :vote: for no guns. it definitely isnt the fascists causing a problem, nosiree
:sadness: i’ve only got lib brain of making them accessories to murder if gun safe doesn’t show signs of breaking and entering (or no gun safe at all), but I don’t know how you can do it without even more punishments. Biometrics is dogshit, bullets can be made with a box of scraps, cop checks is constant harassment for poors and surprise when some upstanding community failson does it anyway.
Yeah, but if they take guns from parents (gun bought by parent before child, stored in a safe with 0000 password), this won’t stop it, and that seems like a pattern.
We should controll guns. Anyone that makes over 150% of the poverty line should not be allowed to to own a gun.
Oh, fuck, I thought I was on point with socializing guns but this is even better.
Gotta create a well ordered militia after all. We could orgnaize it through the selective service system
Hear me out. We can't take the guns from regular Americans, but we can take guns from the cops.
Disarm the Police!
:padme-1: By chopping their arms off, right?
:padme-2: ...By chopping their arms off, right?!
Alternative bits with the same image:
- :vote:
- “idk what [gunmans entire legal name and address]’s ideology was but we need more funding for the police”
- agent looking for new assignment because their last one just wrapped up
Idk America is the only country on the entire planet with more guns than people. More than twice as much guns per capita than active warzones like Yemen. There are simply too many guns in that country.
The intention of gun ownership in the US constitution, as per the first amendment, is to go out and do settler colonialism. It was never intended to keep anyone free, in fact quite the opposite.
Also I don't think Marx's statements on guns were intended to be taken as "Let's flood every country with so many guns that each white reactionary has seventeen laying around their house in the suburb" either ya know?
Guns and weapons are useful tools, but the US is just out of control at this point with them. As you point out even war wouldn't need this many. There's so many, we're even used as a source of weapons for fascist governments and coups in Central/South American countries.
Voting, freedom of speech, and literacy were also never intended for anyone other than wealthy white property owning cismen, but I'll be damned before I let you restrict those rights for the rest of us. The may be "bourgeois rights" but they allow us breathing room for as long as this system stands. The guns, just like property are disproportionately in the hands of those wealthy white cismen anyways, so any restriction will basically be a gun tax, just like the poll taxes that ran over us in ages past. By restricting them without systemic change, you are dooming the targeted groups to helplessness, and it's patently obvious that environmental and economic collapse is coming closer. I'm not volunteering to be rounded up in the Asian, lbtq, black, brown, socialist concentration camps that easily...
It's really easy to want it, but it's just not going to make a difference
This. It’s a lib brained obfuscation for fixing a multi-faceted problem by aiming for something that can’t be passed let alone fixed
I don't think it's the guns that are doing it.
I don't know what it is exactly that is leading to more and more weirdos going "I'm going to kill a bunch of strangers/" in greater and greater numbers every year here.
Some are racist, and some do it because they just want to have an adventure?
I can say that we'd have way less of a problem with gun violence if these shitheads went after boardrooms instead of children.
Americans thrive to be represented in 'the spectacle.' So it's become an actor, athelete or shoot up some people so you get on the news.
I’m going to go click like on some shitty edgelord teen memers TikTok, maybe it will save a life.
Elon Musk knows he can't log of because for at least one of his fans a simple like on their meme is enough to prevent them from shooting up a school or a mall.
I believe it's natural combo of constantly dropping living standard and - as a reaction to that - media becoming more and more aggressive in order to controll the poor; Say lots of stuff that would be banned/filtered 20-30 years ago is now tolerated or even normalised, plus social media is even harder to regulate (even if someone really wanted to) than the classical papers/TV.
Social media alone is not "enough" - since there is practically zero shootings out of USA.
Maybe it’s the combination of things getting worse while being told things are actually getting better.
American media goes very hard on saying things are getting better in a way that most people look around themselves and go “sure doesn’t look that way.”
But then instead of going after those bastards they shoot random kids? Like they aren’t even shooting out of revenge.
The murderers are deranged, I have no idea what exactly happens in their minds - maybe they are lost and seeking point/purpose in life, thinking they are some kind of messiahs/martyrs, extreme anger management issues...I could go on with million other ideas but really it's just guessing and not really rellevant.
What I had in mind is the climate of despair / normalised violence and easily available guns, in which these things start happening regularly. Unlike in many other countries in the world which, I bet, have their fair share of lunatics.
But many of these shooters aren’t even old enough to work that much.
We should have 3 months off a year.
i really don't like guns tbh. If we could abolish guns and disappear them from the face of the planet I would be in favor of it. Guns are heavily restricted in China and other communist countries for a reason.
Honestly, if you don't have two MiG-29s and a Blackjack, are you even armed?
i would theoretically support it but there are more guns than people in america so it ain't gonna happen
Yeah there would be a ton of people refusing to give up their guns and causing shootouts and shit. I honestly think a lot of people who are super anti gun control just like their expensive (and deadly) toys and don't want to give them up
If only a Good Guy WIth A Gun (TM) had been there, right?
Or better yet if the kids and teachers had been armed to the teeth and come to school strapped every day.
Really it's their fault that they're dead, not the gunman's when you think about it.
spoiler
If it isn't obvious: I have complete and utter contempt for anyone, leftists included, who make these arguments or even hint at them.
do an australia and buy back all the guns. I don't care about muh 2nd ammendment or under no pretext. This country is too diseased to handle them.
How come other countries that have guns don't have anywhere near this problem?
I will never sign off on a disarmed populace while the CHUD law enforcement gets to keep theirs. The state should never be allowed a monopoly on violence.
How come other countries that have guns don’t have anywhere near this problem?
Because the problem with this country is deeper than guns, it's the culture.
I agree. This country is built on violence, and selfishness is a virtue here
That just ends up taking wealth away from poor people. No buyback is going to pay people what their guns are actually worth. No big deal to rich and middle class folks, of course.
You can't fool me piggos! I literally just made a post about this. I AM IMMUNE. :hahaha:
