I've only watched 3 episodes so far but I came to it because it's written or directed by David Simon. I'm not sure how I feel about it so far, I've actually not seen a war film about Iraq like this. I mean, there's absolutely nothing valiant or anything about how grunts are depicted - in fact, a good portion of them are basically bloodthirsty psychopaths chomping at the bit to kill Iraqis. It is incredibly gruesome and bleak.
And yet, apparently this show best depicts what it was actually like to be there for the invasion.
I am curious as to how it was received or viewed by people who are non leftists though.
What do yall think of this show?
Lol absolutely, this show is foe sure one of those that would get people who are like "Whoa, military so cool!"
I remember one of the main criticisms from laypeople arounds its release was that the Marines were depicted as cartoonish gung-ho parodies of themselves like Starship Troopers played straight, and I was like, no, this is quite literally how they really are, in fact in some ways this is toned down
Yeah, I don't claim any first hand knowledge myself but I knew several people who had done tours and they thought the personalities at least were spot on for people they worked with whereas I remember thinking they were kaybr a bit much.
Yeah I'm almost certain that leadership is as full of shit irl as they are in the show. I've watched videos of these guys speeches before and it's very close to what is depicted in the show. As far as grunts go, I'm not entirely sure but it wouldn't suprise me if this is very accurate
I loved it. I still do. It's a very realistic and ulfiltered look at how the military operated and what an organizational catastrophe 2003 was down to the squad level. And this was depicting Recon guys who were supposed to be among the cream of the crop when it came to Marines. At some point they get told that "reservists" are going to take over from them and a truckload these guys turns up and immediately start doing warcrimes.
My main point of criticism is that this is an extremely clever bit of propaganda in some ways. It stops short of demonizing the insititution or even the militarism that led to the war in Iraq, focusing instead on the blunders of a select few unprofessional dipshits ruining what would have been a nice, clean, in-and-out operation, totally depoliticized
spoiler
Towards the end of the series they get a call on the radio that the entire WMD threat is lifted as if it never happened, and the embedded journo remarks on how that was the whole point of the operation in the first place and just gets brushed off by one of the Marines in his truck as a dumb hysterical liberal pansy.
This is the only time the legitimacy or inherent justness of the war gets directly addressed or called into question. There are other times when the troops get to do their thing and be professional killers and this gets played totally straight; from the odd firefight to a successful sniping mission (polar opposite of Jarhead in some ways). It will still do propaganda but in a different way, showing you the real side of the Marines that more boring jingoistic Hollywood conservative wankery won't and gets to pass that off as a nod to realism.
I have not read the book it's based off of so I couldn't tell you how much more critical of the war the book is. My guess is that the title is less ironic and more exalting of their lethality.
I stopped reading in your second paragraph because I suspected you put a spoiler about the end of the series, but my main feeling of uneasiness lines up with your criticism. It's as If the problem with the Iraq war was that it was just too unorganized, not well planned, not well outfitted enough. Although I don't think that's the only point the show makes, but I think many could walk away with that takeaway -"we just have to give them more resources next time!"
I also noticed that pretty much there are warcrimes happening constantly. If one team decides to hold back because of civilians, some other team which has absolutely no comms will show up and start killing civilians. People are just calling airstrikes on random huts because they think it will get them medals. They're constantly killing children.
Also the immense racism and homophobia in the show is really not surprising bit still jarring to witness. I don't doubt that this Is realistic though.
Lol yeah of course, I just didn't want to read about specific events in the show or anything. Obviously I know what happened during the Iraq war
Sorry I'll spoiler the relevant bits, I guess since this was a historical event I figured it wouldn't count. But yes, that's one major read you could get out of it - there is a Right Way to do this thing and our troops are in a position to achieve this if we just get rid of the Bad Things. The homophobia and racism (and sexism and misogyny), as anyone who has spent time in the military can also attest, is very realistic as well.
Interesting, I read the journo bit as another example of how little any of the justifications or arguments around war matter when you're already bought in and amongst the shit.
Oh that's absolutely true; I don't believe any of these guys ever let the thought that the war may be unjustified brew in their mind for longer than a few seconds. They couldn't even if they wanted to, and they are trained from day 1 that the needs of their mission and their sense of duty to their peers and commanders takes precedence above all. They are mercenaries, fundamentally.
Okay so I just finished it and now going back and reading your comment it wasn't really a spoiler lol, but I just didn't know. That being said, I think the show could be interpreted a few ways. Of course, widespread warcrimes are inevitable when conducting an illegal, genocidal invasion of another sovereign country. Further, when a government infects their populace with racist propaganda before sending them off to invade a country, it's really just endorsement of widespread warcrimes.
Of course, there are true believers, maybe even half of them really believe that they are going there to help, but ultimately that doesn't Matter because it's clear that the marines exist first and foremost to serve marine leadership. Any kind of consideration towards the people they are ultimately brutalizing is a distant second thought, but even so, if you're an officer and do warcrimes it's actually rewarded. This is directly addressed in the show. Also in that scene where the journalist talks about how the WMD justification was bullshit, another marine turns to him and says:" who cares, we're here to kill" or something to that effect. That I think probably best sums up the mentality of the grunts.
Idk, I'm still taking in the show, it was very very good. Created what seemed like a very realistic atmosphere. Absolutely brutal though and fucking disgusting
the only thing i remember, and i think about all the fucking time is the monologue one guy has about the gravity of the situation they're going into. something like "we're invading the cradle of civilisation"
and they did. and they stole the collective heritage of a third of this fucking planet, killed a million people, ruined a nation for decades (and more to come!) left toxic waste, all based on a lie. if we killed every single politician and official who enabled the second gulf war it'd be too lenient
I read the book years back, it's pretty much as you and others said: a mix of dumb brainwashed kids that've been fed yankee ultranationalist koolaid from birth, opportunists, adventurists, and unhinged sociopaths like their dipshit officer that wanted to lead his men in a glorious bayonet charge
I've never watched it but it's one of like 3 shows my MAGA chud (probably White nationalist by now) brother watches over and over because he refuses to partake in any movie, TV show, game, book, etc hes not familiar with because it might be tainted by cultural marxism so I don't have any plans to watch it
I mentioned this in another comment on here, but if he watches this and thinks the characters and their actions are cool and good, thats just... extremely fucked
