not tryna argue either way, but I think this explains the CCP's thinking on the matter
The grip of the Communist Party is nowhere more apparent than in China’s foreign policy, where peace and multilateralism appear in stark opposition to capitalism’s depraved and inhumane pursuit of profit. China is simultaneously berated as an encroaching superpredator by the Western establishment and scolded for not exporting revolution by Western ultra-leftists. Witnessing the US openly installing and propping up reactionaries like Bolivia’s Añez and Brazil’s Bolsonaro, Western socialists chide China for failing to retaliate in kind. Xi Jinping responded decisively in 2012:
“In the midst of international financial turmoil, China was still able to solve the problem of feeding its 1.3 billion people, and that was already our greatest contribution to humankind,” he said in comments that drew applause from Chinese Internet users.
“Some foreigners with full bellies and nothing better to do engage in finger-pointing at us,” he went on. “First, China does not export revolution; second, it does not export famine and poverty; and third, it does not mess around with you. So what else is there to say?” [44]
The Chinese strategy can be understood as a reaction to the outcomes of the Soviet model, which openly aligned with emancipatory projects world-wide. Although heroic, the bravado allowed capitalists to construct and propagate narratives of impending communist invasion, which in turn created the conditions for the erection of economic fences that isolated and ultimately destroyed dependent socialist projects.
As far back as 1950, Deng Xiaoping laid out the basic tenets of an alternative strategy:
If the upper strata do not consent to our plan, we should give it up, for only their consent counts. Why? Because, owing to historical, political and economic peculiarities, the upper strata hold the chief sway in minority nationality areas. Progressive forces are weak there and exert little influence. In future, however, when the progressive forces expand, they will exert a very great influence, although they do not have a decisive bearing at present. [45]
To put it metaphorically, the USSR helped revolutionary forces cross the river, a river they were never quite strong enough to cross on their own. China instead stands across that same river, offering help to those who manage to cross it. China’s history of undermining US sanctions against Cuba, the DPRK, and Venezuela does not in itself help any individual revolutionary party succeed. However, whoever succeeds knows they won’t have to deal with US subterfuge without support. The success or failure of any revolution will once again be up to national forces, not Washington, ex machina.
“Cross the river by feeling for the stones.”
— Xi Jinping quoting Deng Xiaoping, Dialectical Materialism Is the Worldview and Methodology of Chinese Communists. [39]
from https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/
To put it metaphorically, the USSR helped revolutionary forces cross the river, a river they were never quite strong enough to cross on their own. China instead stands across that same river, offering help to those who manage to cross it.
I get this reasoning, especially until like 5-10 years ago when China was not quite as dominant of a global power. China, like the USSR, was not quite strong enough to cross the river. But they are strong enough to cross the river now, so it’s frustrating to watch them refuse to help others cross that river, especially when a significantly smaller and weaker country was doing its best to help others cross the river over half a century ago.
But also I’m just some idiot.
scolded for not exporting revolution by Western ultra-leftists.
I'm not scolding I'm begging :soviet-bottom:
China not doing that is why the country is so prosperous right now. They took all that military spending other countries burn, and spent it on infrastructure. IF they ever go apewire, they’re waiting for the West to deeply embarrass itself in a conflict elsewhere- to prove that the Anglosphere has deflated a long while ago. Never interrupt your opponent while they’re making a mistake.
Yeah, but still, well funded leftist militias in the imperial core would be cool
Also, which will prevail, the strongest shield or the mightiest arrow?
american media and 'national security' apparatuses can only really influence how americans perceive China - they've only got testimony and text to work with
give the george bush center for intellegence a smoking gun and that can quickly change
I recognize that you’re right, but it’s cold comfort being in the rapidly collapsing US, looking at the current bulwark of socialism in the world and basically screaming “Please help us!” to no avail.
Outside forces throwing excessive funding to leftist groups in the US is one of the only ways this collapse doesn’t end up as the 4th Reich.
The CIA doesn’t seem to have much trouble creating new reactionary groups to do their dirty work
We have to help ourselves first. No amount of money will do any good if it becomes the next justification for military escalation.
Yeah pretty much. Look how quickly your average US liberal jumped on the Russophobic bandwagon. With China it would be even more bloodthirsty and jingoistic since it presents a real challenge to American hegemony.
Money is useful, but it doesn't win revolutions. Look at how much ammo is just sitting around this country. If things get hot, we'll be armed pretty quickly if we're smart.
Sure but the CIA doesn’t just give out money randomly. They give training, information, connections, etc.
People get black bagged for walking eith signs and you want a foreign nation to try to stealth teach us combat? Yeah no that's not happening.
I want China to use the same tactics that the CIA has successfully used to overthrow countries over and over again to help get us out of this hell, and help other countries get out of their hells too.
CIA gets away with it because they're working against countries weaker in surveillance than they are or less likely to go nuclear. The US is neither compared to China.
Exactly!!! That’s part of my point.
The CIA doesn’t seem to have any trouble whipping up reactionary groups around the world wherever it wants. Where’s our Chinese CIA training leftist paramilitaries to stir up trouble in the imperial core and right wing dictatorships in the global south?
There needs to be SOME base for that movement to build on. We’ve barely gotten over the illusion of rugged individualism, we need to re-learn how to be a community before we can stand up for ourselves.
Maybe I’m very pessimistic about American society, but I truly do not believe that will happen without outside agitators showing us how to do it and giving vast support to the people that do.
Every institution in the United States is designed to break down community, destroy leftist and worker movements, and make sure even “leftists” eventually come back into the fold as quiet liberals. I don’t see that being overcome by the targets of those institutions without outside help or the complete collapse of the United States.
And if those movements and communities don’t already exist at the time of collapse we’re in deep deep fucking trouble.
We learn by doing, then. It starts with food and shelter, not adventurism.
If China was funding leftist militants in the US, they would never acknowledge it. So maybe it is happening
When I was a child I waited for my letter to Hogwarts. Now I wait for a DM from a Chinese agent
It's the opening to Percy Jackson but instead they saw I was reading about the Korean War and I get dragged to a mountain training camp to avoid the CIA. Works pretty well, the monsters in Percy Jackson track you over phone, just like feds.
If Satan rose from Hell to attack the USA tomorrow, I would help him because the USA is the greater Satan.
China should be training foreigners to create & organise their own local parties. International Lenin School style. Money won't do any good going to some electoralist org that's going to split in 3 years.
do you have a source about the US funding militias in China? would love to be able to slap libs in the face with that lol
Death to America
The whole north east xinjang was us funding terrorism there. I can't remember the department of defence guy talking about it but I can google it for you later. It wasn't hard to find.
No, except the CIA admiting "we must fund extremist militias in China". I think it was Pompeo itself in 2013 or some shit like that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program
and ETIM in China which was on the US list of terrorist organizations and Trump was bombing them (I think?) until they became useful to us
Maybe I'm turning into a neocon but I wish there was a commie cia that funneled black funds into anything vaguely anticapitalism
I don't want radlibs grifters to get xibucks just for making a video in 2022 about "society right now pretty bad, huh"
