Roger Waters is very dumb but dumb people tend to like him because he says some things they like. So what happens when he 'debates' an even dumber liberal on...
Roger Waters - Comfortably Numb, Bad Empanada - Confident and Dumb
"You internet freak, get out of here with your concern for socialism as a project that has existed and does exist in the real world! Only non-existent socialism for me, please!"
You're allowed to think whatever you want. In that regard, be a Rapture-obsessed Evangelical for all I care. Be a Neonazi Zionist. Be whatever Haz is.
But it's an entirely different question if this website should be a platform for declaring the illegitimacy of AES states, which I side with the community in saying is completely counter-productive. At that point, just go to like an anarchist subreddit or something and you can do your social credit score memes there to your heart's content.
I literally don't care about Russia, I don't think it's good, and I don't critically support them, I however do not support any western intervention either. I do as far as what the phrase is worth critically support China though lol, I hope they are able to bring about world socialism, but I prefer other factions in the government to Xi personally, and I just don't like the term AES bc it's trying to gatekeep what counts as socialism not that the states are somehow evil.
Russia is not AES. It's part of the anti-imperialist bloc, but that doesn't make it socialist at all and literally no one here would assert that it is. Not caring about Russia but also opposing western intervention is a perfectly fine position. Viewing Putin as a mafioso and Russia as a plutocracy (like all liberal democracies) that is only a member of the new eastern bloc for opportunistic reasons is likewise perfectly compatible.
AES doesn't gatekeep what counts as socialism any more than reality does. Little anarchist communes are also AES, they are just politically unimportant most of the time (beyond their local communities) by their very nature, though historically there have been important ones and there may be more in the future.
"AES" is used to distinguish between supporting socialism as a living project and supporting "socialism" as something that "has never been tried" and only exists in the (imagined) future.
the term literally wasn't though, look into it's original derivation, it was made by the Breznev government (originally called real socialism) to quash criticism in the eastern bloc for people who started wondering whether Mao's system might be a better approach for them who disagreed with self evidently revisionist policies, you may use it that way, but the reason it was invented was to gatekeep definitions of socialism so the only real socialism was the :ussr-cry: specfically after Stalin USSR
Today it is also used to describe SWCC, whatever we might say about that historical usage. If you go look somewhere like GZD, which you identified as aligning with AES spaces, they do use the term for the Mao-era PRC as well as many other places like Cuba and Vietnam.
supporting “socialism” as something that “has never been tried” and only exists in the (imagined) future
this is literally untrue you just have never looked up the original usage, the textbook definition would not apply to any anarchist commune or maoist insurgency or whatever else
It’s funny bc earlier we had the patsoc hiding behind sectarianism to defend their reactionary ideology and you’re using it as an excuse to stop criticism of people with generally chauvinist takes. We are anti-sectarian but we are more broadly pro-aes and the non-ml comrades here generally have been cool and in favor of that as well. Hell we had a Reddit style anarchist here a while back and tons of our own anarchists called them libs for their well, lib views tbh.
We’ve litigated this here before and I don’t think allowing all ideologies for some ideal of non-sectarianism is a good thing when they conflict with more important ideals like solidarity with aes and 3rd world comrades or a belief in revolutionary over reformist politics which we generally have. I wouldn’t want to see the site diluted to welcome twitter/Reddit style socialists and socdems in the name of non-sectarianism. Critiquing why those ideologies have historically and continue this day to fold or capitulate to capital is more important
I literally just want to not see the words ultra or anarkiddy on this website, I don’t expect people to change their views, there are clearly other places for that
Anarkiddie I get but ultras have literally always broadly been critiqued by virtually the whole of the left. It’s basically no different than critique liberals especially when what they’re espousing is state dept serving (indirectly or otherwise) chauvinism.
You asked if you could dunk on rad libs when referring to a socialist / communist content creator, he is not an ML who upholds AES so therefore he is radlib, that is your point, and it’s the definition of sectarinaism
I'm not referring to BE. I'm asking you if dunking on radlibs is sectarian. Not if dunking on BE is sectarian. Is dunking on radlibs sectarian? This is a yes or no question and it does not relate to BE, who is being described as an Ultra, which is not a radlib.
you're very funny, actually, you spend half of your posting time in this website ''side-venting'' and shitting about every tendency you don't like by calling them ''sectarian'' or whatever it is this month, posting months-old threads and random comments from an extremely more niche, smaller website and basically implying it as proof that every person belonging to that tendecy ''are the REAL sectarians!''. overall being a smug rose-twitter liberal. I'd say you're the only one being sectarian here.
Certain tendency-specific words are as far as I can tell tolerated to use like Ultra or Statist as long as it isnt used in a direct hostile manner to someone on the site.
I feel like that would change quick if people just started posting about “chauvinist tankies” instead of chauvinist ultras, and it is inherently hostile
is dunking on radlibs sectarian?
using the word ultras is, it belongs on GZD and other just ML AES spaces
"You internet freak, get out of here with your concern for socialism as a project that has existed and does exist in the real world! Only non-existent socialism for me, please!"
CW mildy hostile, I'm sorry
I think you should be allowed to think that and also hear me out there not think that
You're allowed to think whatever you want. In that regard, be a Rapture-obsessed Evangelical for all I care. Be a Neonazi Zionist. Be whatever Haz is.
But it's an entirely different question if this website should be a platform for declaring the illegitimacy of AES states, which I side with the community in saying is completely counter-productive. At that point, just go to like an anarchist subreddit or something and you can do your social credit score memes there to your heart's content.
I literally don't care about Russia, I don't think it's good, and I don't critically support them, I however do not support any western intervention either. I do as far as what the phrase is worth critically support China though lol, I hope they are able to bring about world socialism, but I prefer other factions in the government to Xi personally, and I just don't like the term AES bc it's trying to gatekeep what counts as socialism not that the states are somehow evil.
Russia is not AES. It's part of the anti-imperialist bloc, but that doesn't make it socialist at all and literally no one here would assert that it is. Not caring about Russia but also opposing western intervention is a perfectly fine position. Viewing Putin as a mafioso and Russia as a plutocracy (like all liberal democracies) that is only a member of the new eastern bloc for opportunistic reasons is likewise perfectly compatible.
AES doesn't gatekeep what counts as socialism any more than reality does. Little anarchist communes are also AES, they are just politically unimportant most of the time (beyond their local communities) by their very nature, though historically there have been important ones and there may be more in the future.
"AES" is used to distinguish between supporting socialism as a living project and supporting "socialism" as something that "has never been tried" and only exists in the (imagined) future.
the term literally wasn't though, look into it's original derivation, it was made by the Breznev government (originally called real socialism) to quash criticism in the eastern bloc for people who started wondering whether Mao's system might be a better approach for them who disagreed with self evidently revisionist policies, you may use it that way, but the reason it was invented was to gatekeep definitions of socialism so the only real socialism was the :ussr-cry: specfically after Stalin USSR
Today it is also used to describe SWCC, whatever we might say about that historical usage. If you go look somewhere like GZD, which you identified as aligning with AES spaces, they do use the term for the Mao-era PRC as well as many other places like Cuba and Vietnam.
CW mildy hostile, I'm sorry
this is literally untrue you just have never looked up the original usage, the textbook definition would not apply to any anarchist commune or maoist insurgency or whatever else
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the traditional marxists (there are different terms for the same thing I'm sure)
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is dunking on radlibs sectarian?
you are sectarian
this isn't a hard question to answer, and I'm pretty sure asking it isn't sectarian
it is sectarian when you choose a tendency you don’t agree with it label it radlib and say can’t we dunk on them
It’s funny bc earlier we had the patsoc hiding behind sectarianism to defend their reactionary ideology and you’re using it as an excuse to stop criticism of people with generally chauvinist takes. We are anti-sectarian but we are more broadly pro-aes and the non-ml comrades here generally have been cool and in favor of that as well. Hell we had a Reddit style anarchist here a while back and tons of our own anarchists called them libs for their well, lib views tbh.
We’ve litigated this here before and I don’t think allowing all ideologies for some ideal of non-sectarianism is a good thing when they conflict with more important ideals like solidarity with aes and 3rd world comrades or a belief in revolutionary over reformist politics which we generally have. I wouldn’t want to see the site diluted to welcome twitter/Reddit style socialists and socdems in the name of non-sectarianism. Critiquing why those ideologies have historically and continue this day to fold or capitulate to capital is more important
I literally just want to not see the words ultra or anarkiddy on this website, I don’t expect people to change their views, there are clearly other places for that
Anarkiddie I get but ultras have literally always broadly been critiqued by virtually the whole of the left. It’s basically no different than critique liberals especially when what they’re espousing is state dept serving (indirectly or otherwise) chauvinism.
That's not what I asked and you know it, if you truly believe the things you believe answering this question should be dead simple with a yes or no
You asked if you could dunk on rad libs when referring to a socialist / communist content creator, he is not an ML who upholds AES so therefore he is radlib, that is your point, and it’s the definition of sectarinaism
I'm not referring to BE. I'm asking you if dunking on radlibs is sectarian. Not if dunking on BE is sectarian. Is dunking on radlibs sectarian? This is a yes or no question and it does not relate to BE, who is being described as an Ultra, which is not a radlib.
you're very funny, actually, you spend half of your posting time in this website ''side-venting'' and shitting about every tendency you don't like by calling them ''sectarian'' or whatever it is this month, posting months-old threads and random comments from an extremely more niche, smaller website and basically implying it as proof that every person belonging to that tendecy ''are the REAL sectarians!''. overall being a smug rose-twitter liberal. I'd say you're the only one being sectarian here.
in the end all i can say is lmao.
CW hostile, but I don't think I'm sorry for this one, I'm pretty sure this comment was extremely rude
you’re clearly really invested in me, mad or something?
lmao
Certain tendency-specific words are as far as I can tell tolerated to use like Ultra or Statist as long as it isnt used in a direct hostile manner to someone on the site.
I feel like that would change quick if people just started posting about “chauvinist tankies” instead of chauvinist ultras, and it is inherently hostile