That or you send a bunch of people to prison for 5 years that upon coming out are 100x more invested in the destruction of the state than they were beforehand and they've rubbed shoulders with really actually dangerous criminals in the meantime.
That and you... You want to send a bunch of committed communists into the prison system? People that know theory? Among the most seriously oppressed in a space where they're going to agitate?
I think you should reassess what a terrible fucking idea that is. With material conditions on a permanent downtrend for the next 10-20 years you're basically fucked anyway but this is not a smart move. The IWW arrests of the earlier red scares only worked as well as they did because they deported thousands of people... They killed the american socialists that were problematic to stop them.
EXACTLY. It's a terrible terrible idea to imprison tonnes of radicalised marxists who will spend ALL their prison time actively agitating with an angry annnngry agenda after the state has clearly wronged them.
There are only 3 ways to solve political dissidents:
Get them as far away from your country as possible. Deportation and/or exile.
Re-educate them. Resolve their political issues or conflicts through education and improve their material conditions (via education giving them better prospects) so they have no desire to destroy something they're materially benefiting from.
Kill them.
Imprisonment just gets some of them immediately off the streets but sets you up for much bigger problems years down the line.
The US has solved its problems in this area in the past through deportation in combination with murder. It can not solve these problems through imprisonment.
You're proving his point about being LARPers. Take your middle-class ass into the prison system and tell people who've grown up in grinding financial and emotional deprivation about "theory". The only socialist achievement you'll make is having your teeth bashed out and your mouth used as a communal fuckhole.
You know nothing about me mate. You have no idea about anyone you're talking to here with this ridiculous generalisation. Whether they may have been in prison prior to radicalising leftwards, or whether they've already been. It's honestly really weird and awkward when people respond with some obvious cartoon picture in their head of who the other person is that they made up entirely based on zero information prior to responding.
A better starting point if you wanted to have an actual human interaction instead of trying to pander would have been to ask whether I've actually spent any time inside already. I've been active longer than you've been cooking for yourself.
I really think you should take some time to self-crit on why you responded this way. Whatever set you off to attack a decent human being this hard seems like an unresolved personal issue. Stop attacking people for cartoons that exist entirely in your own head and actually speak to human beings and learn who/what they are, have a real conversation, connect and then offer whatever concerns you have when you do actually understand who the person is that you're speaking to. This cartoon character shit is libby nonsense.
It’s honestly really weird and awkward when people respond with some obvious cartoon picture in their head of who the other person is that they made up entirely based on zero information prior to responding...This cartoon character shit is libby nonsense.
This is the same site where anyone who says something against the extreme ideological consensus is called a fascist right?
Depends what kind of fascism we're talking about. Palingenetic ultranationalist fascism? No. Imperialism? Sure. State repression? Sure. Claiming people live in a democracy when everyone spends 10 hours a day working at a dictatorship? Sure.
It really depends. There are several types of fascism on a sort of spectrum that lead into one another in a systemic way.
I think another way to look at it is in the same light as how people call healthcare "socialist". Yes it is socialist in the sense that it's a policy that socialists like and support. Is it socialism itself? No. Is it a socialist feature? Yes. Do you live under fascism? No. Do you live with fascist features? Absolutely yes. If you advocate for something that is a fascist feature and someone says "that's fascist", I think you should be seeing it in the same light as someone saying "that's socialist" when point a finger at the advocation for healthcare or democratic workplaces and so on.
Your attitude doesn't sound like you're making a particularly good-faith attempt at conversation. If that isn't going to change then I'm going to have to ask you to post a picture of your dick.
I agree completely with what you've said, but I was explicitly referring to calling people fascists, not identifying statements or societal features as fascist. As you alluded to in your reply it's the parallel version of when Republican boomers label anyone advocating for i.e. Health Care For All as a "Socialist!" , and use that as a blanket method of dismissing them as unworthy of listening to. I will not be posting a picture of my penis at this time, and without wanting to make a big deal of it, find that meme kind of grossly sexual and gendered in a way that cuts against the admirably gender progressive nature of this site and movement.
You started this interaction with an attack using prison rape I don't think you're in any position to make a moral argument about "grossly sexual" things in this interaction. If gendered things are an issue then put your pronouns on your profile, ironically I DO have mine up and you still made a misgendered prison rape attack though.
I've got no doubt that marxist literature could be a powerful resource for change and radicalisation within the prison population, but not because it's advocated for by some new inmate who sees themselves as a Revolutionary or enlightened Teacher. I've been to prison, have you? My experience was that it was paramount to your survival to keep your head down and avoid standing out. My abiding memory of that time is constant 24/7 wariness, learning not to trust anybody, and how fragile and precarious your safety was. The wrong word, or joke, or look, or even sitting in the wrong chair could get you marked down as a victim, and if that happened you were fucked because safety in prison is entirely a social construct. If people decide that you're vulnerable, you are.
So that's why it annoys me when I see people posting shit that looks like fantasy wish-fulfilment about preaching to the receptive, confined masses. It might be because of the unit I was in, but I never met anyone inside who would be receptive to even the concept of a communal society or self-sacrifice for a stranger. A lot of comrades talk about the prison population like its some stereotypical, token group that are all there for selling weed. They talk about them the same way libs talk about Black people. A lot of prisoners are, frankly, fucking horrible human beings who are fundamentally broken inside by trauma.
I never met anyone inside who would be receptive to even the concept of a communal society or self-sacrifice for a stranger.
I managed to radicalise a grand total of 2 people in my entire time in prison and i would bet money that I would have got 0 (and my head kicked in) if I wasn't a pretty hench working class bloke in for a 5 stretch for gbh
This is less "prison authorities making an arbitrary judgement" than it is " prison authorities trying desperately to cover up a big glowing video game weak point."
Sure thing Ted.
That or you send a bunch of people to prison for 5 years that upon coming out are 100x more invested in the destruction of the state than they were beforehand and they've rubbed shoulders with really actually dangerous criminals in the meantime.
That and you... You want to send a bunch of committed communists into the prison system? People that know theory? Among the most seriously oppressed in a space where they're going to agitate?
I think you should reassess what a terrible fucking idea that is. With material conditions on a permanent downtrend for the next 10-20 years you're basically fucked anyway but this is not a smart move. The IWW arrests of the earlier red scares only worked as well as they did because they deported thousands of people... They killed the american socialists that were problematic to stop them.
deleted by creator
EXACTLY. It's a terrible terrible idea to imprison tonnes of radicalised marxists who will spend ALL their prison time actively agitating with an angry annnngry agenda after the state has clearly wronged them.
There are only 3 ways to solve political dissidents:
Imprisonment just gets some of them immediately off the streets but sets you up for much bigger problems years down the line.
The US has solved its problems in this area in the past through deportation in combination with murder. It can not solve these problems through imprisonment.
Noooo don’t let us radicalize the largest prison population on Earth haha
But I’m all seriousness, I hope no one has to go to jail for protesting, much less protesting for the right to not be wantonly killed by the state
You're proving his point about being LARPers. Take your middle-class ass into the prison system and tell people who've grown up in grinding financial and emotional deprivation about "theory". The only socialist achievement you'll make is having your teeth bashed out and your mouth used as a communal fuckhole.
You know nothing about me mate. You have no idea about anyone you're talking to here with this ridiculous generalisation. Whether they may have been in prison prior to radicalising leftwards, or whether they've already been. It's honestly really weird and awkward when people respond with some obvious cartoon picture in their head of who the other person is that they made up entirely based on zero information prior to responding.
A better starting point if you wanted to have an actual human interaction instead of trying to pander would have been to ask whether I've actually spent any time inside already. I've been active longer than you've been cooking for yourself.
I really think you should take some time to self-crit on why you responded this way. Whatever set you off to attack a decent human being this hard seems like an unresolved personal issue. Stop attacking people for cartoons that exist entirely in your own head and actually speak to human beings and learn who/what they are, have a real conversation, connect and then offer whatever concerns you have when you do actually understand who the person is that you're speaking to. This cartoon character shit is libby nonsense.
This is the same site where anyone who says something against the extreme ideological consensus is called a fascist right?
Depends what kind of fascism we're talking about. Palingenetic ultranationalist fascism? No. Imperialism? Sure. State repression? Sure. Claiming people live in a democracy when everyone spends 10 hours a day working at a dictatorship? Sure.
It really depends. There are several types of fascism on a sort of spectrum that lead into one another in a systemic way.
I think another way to look at it is in the same light as how people call healthcare "socialist". Yes it is socialist in the sense that it's a policy that socialists like and support. Is it socialism itself? No. Is it a socialist feature? Yes. Do you live under fascism? No. Do you live with fascist features? Absolutely yes. If you advocate for something that is a fascist feature and someone says "that's fascist", I think you should be seeing it in the same light as someone saying "that's socialist" when point a finger at the advocation for healthcare or democratic workplaces and so on.
Your attitude doesn't sound like you're making a particularly good-faith attempt at conversation. If that isn't going to change then I'm going to have to ask you to post a picture of your dick.
I agree completely with what you've said, but I was explicitly referring to calling people fascists, not identifying statements or societal features as fascist. As you alluded to in your reply it's the parallel version of when Republican boomers label anyone advocating for i.e. Health Care For All as a "Socialist!" , and use that as a blanket method of dismissing them as unworthy of listening to. I will not be posting a picture of my penis at this time, and without wanting to make a big deal of it, find that meme kind of grossly sexual and gendered in a way that cuts against the admirably gender progressive nature of this site and movement.
You started this interaction with an attack using prison rape I don't think you're in any position to make a moral argument about "grossly sexual" things in this interaction. If gendered things are an issue then put your pronouns on your profile, ironically I DO have mine up and you still made a misgendered prison rape attack though.
Calm down, you make it sound like I actually fucked your mouth.
Give it a rest mate.
Lol is that why prisons have banned marxist literature? Because nobody relates to it?
I've got no doubt that marxist literature could be a powerful resource for change and radicalisation within the prison population, but not because it's advocated for by some new inmate who sees themselves as a Revolutionary or enlightened Teacher. I've been to prison, have you? My experience was that it was paramount to your survival to keep your head down and avoid standing out. My abiding memory of that time is constant 24/7 wariness, learning not to trust anybody, and how fragile and precarious your safety was. The wrong word, or joke, or look, or even sitting in the wrong chair could get you marked down as a victim, and if that happened you were fucked because safety in prison is entirely a social construct. If people decide that you're vulnerable, you are.
So that's why it annoys me when I see people posting shit that looks like fantasy wish-fulfilment about preaching to the receptive, confined masses. It might be because of the unit I was in, but I never met anyone inside who would be receptive to even the concept of a communal society or self-sacrifice for a stranger. A lot of comrades talk about the prison population like its some stereotypical, token group that are all there for selling weed. They talk about them the same way libs talk about Black people. A lot of prisoners are, frankly, fucking horrible human beings who are fundamentally broken inside by trauma.
deleted by creator
I managed to radicalise a grand total of 2 people in my entire time in prison and i would bet money that I would have got 0 (and my head kicked in) if I wasn't a pretty hench working class bloke in for a 5 stretch for gbh
Not to take away from the validity of all that, but if the prisons themselves have decided that it's a risk worth acting on, there's something there.
I also uncritically accept the judgements of prison authorities. No way those guys could be wrong about something.
This is less "prison authorities making an arbitrary judgement" than it is " prison authorities trying desperately to cover up a big glowing video game weak point."