Decades after the fall of the Soviet Union, the legacy of the Sino-Soviet split stands out sharply in the history of socialism and the Cold War as a major turning point, impacting conflicts all over the world and within the movement, the collapses of 89-91, and China's relationship with the West and embrace of foreign investment.
How do Marxists in China (inside and outside of the CPC) think of it? As justified, as a mistake, as well-intentioned but with bad consequences? What works of theory analyzes its causes, effects? And in light of China's reform and opening up, how is "revisionism", in general and as an ideological rebuke of liberalization in the post-Stalin era in particular, understood?
Any and all answers appreciated, let me know if another comm is better suited for this post.
someone in a discord I also frequent has said this and it makes no sense to me. the CPC is an explicitly marxist party? their constitution indicates the party (and subsequently the nation) is driven by ML ideals?
from the Preamble of the Constitution of the People's Republic of China:
and
IDK! seems like a country piloted by marxist-lenist ideals to me
(http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Constitution/2007-11/15/content_1372962.htm )
One of these things is not like the others.
Also, the irony of someone arguing about Marxism using words rather than deeds as their evidence. Very materialist. If Joe Biden woke up from his sundown nap tonight and declared the US a vanguardist state building communism, would that instantly make the US socialist?
-China is a country where the vast majority of economic activity takes place under capitalist relations of production.
-The vast majority of people are wage-labourers selling their labour to capitalists.
-The vast majority of means of production are privately owned. Private ownership and exploitation is growing, rather than retreating.
-While land is de-jure publically owned, it is de-facto treated as private property which is bought, sold, rented and traded on markets like any other commodity.
As I’ve stated before on this site when the dengists come out swinging, if Xi hits the communism button tomorrow I’ll be there first to congratulate y’all and gladly admit I was wrong. Until then, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…
I really don’t get the hate on Deng. He did successfully what Gorbachev tried to do. Just because China engages with capitalism does not mean it isn’t a communist country. If hexbear existed in the 1940s there would be a lot of :wojak-nooo: noooo you can’t just do socialism in one one country you have to export the revolution globally~ wait, what are you doing with that pickaxe, no don’t kill me, I’m Leon Trots-ACK!
If it wasn't for Deng, the Anglos would've weaseled their way towards keeping parts of Hong Kong that wasn't under the 99 year lease. Yep, having a part of China be a permanent British colony would've surely help further the Chinese project and not be a hotbed of Western spies and agents.
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It’s a boring argument / struggle to have and I’ve seen it play out a hundred times. Maybe I’ll make an effort post with Deng information at some point so we can link users to it.
Personally I would really appreciate that post, any information about :deng-smile: (and :china-stars: in general) is always appreciated, especially as I'm a stinky unwashed westoid with a pile of earthworms for a brain :biden-alert:
I’ll see what I can do then. Almost all information you are going to get about China in the west has been warped to the point of it being nonsense.
It’s very similar to the DPRK / North Korea in that way, very little positive press is being reported by western journalists.
We’re in the middle of a second, shittier cold war. The good news is that so far the USA is losing.
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perfect, this is exactly what I was looking for, thank you so much! :chavez-salute:
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Have we had a Deng megathread? Maybe it's time for a new one in any case.
IMO xi really is the best Chinese leader to date. He really is the best of deng and mao.
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How did two seperate people think I was seriously referring to a “communism button”. It was a pithy way of saying “if China pivots back towards socialism in the future and I’m around to see it”
You know capitalists use this as an example of capitalism pulling people out of poverty? Really makes ya think.
Capitalists use their data to claim that capitalism has elevated people out of poverty. They do not say out loud that all the observable progress in poverty reduction they can measure is due almost entirely to China. It's a lie by omission. The World Bank intentionally moved back the date they started measuring global poverty to retroactively capture China's data. Remove China's data from the model and global poverty has stayed relatively the same except a bigger global population means that there are actually more people living in poverty than when they started measuring it. Capitalists do not encourage the rest of the world to adopt China's model.
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this is embarrassing to see written seriously
I was being facetious. There is no “communism button”, obviously. If you thought this was serious it explains the quality of your other comments on this matter.
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thank you :deng-salute:
:soviet-heart: