Hoping one day something big and undeniable happens that proves us right
Historically it's unlikely. People don't really care about the progress of wars while they're happening. Admittedly the Iraq invasion was a long time ago and my memory is a little foggy, but I don't recall nearly as much daily reporting and propaganda on it compared to Ukraine. Maybe in the first few months. But after a couple of years Americans mostly lost interest and it was just something happening in the background, and a few years later no one except war nerds really know anything about what happened.
I doubt most westerners have any actual knowledge of what's happening in Ukraine. All the sources I see on :reddit-logo: are naked, totally unapologetic propaganda with no assessible truth value. Most people have just bought in to the narrative that, in 2022, for no reason except the love of Evil, Putin invaded the brave, innocent, and patriotic country of Ukraine. And NATO and Europe, out of the kindness of their hearts and their love of justice, are pumping tens of billions of dollars in to this poor, extremely corrupt country that no one cared about last year. And anyone who says that there were any historical events leading up to this war, or that NATO worked tirelessly for thirty years to provoke this war, has been brainwashed by Putin.
It's just kind of how life is. The big capitalists control the media, the government, and the military, so history is whatever is convenient for them. I don't know why some people break out of it and some people don't. For me it was Obama assassinating al-Awlaki and his kid. Just straight up, in the open, unjustified, unapologetic, fully mask off murder of a US citizen while openly and deliberately denying him any kind of due process or ability to protect himself. "Hope and Change" Obama shitting on everything I was taught to believe about the USA was a big enough wake up moment for me to start to realize that all of it, from top to bottom, was lies and brutality and bullshit. But if I hadn't been a politically engaged weirdo to begin with I'm not sure what would have shaken me out of it, if anything.
They went from pretty realistic in 1945 - The Soviets did all the heavy lifting, the Allies mostly supplied war materiel and then showed up for a bit at the end - To total Hollywood bullshit by 2000 - America saved the world. Even the article is hemming and hawing about just admitting that the war in Europe happened in the East and everything else was largely incidental.
I mean even if you took all the Nazis out of the picture, the war in Ukraine is... stupid isn't the right word, but it follows the completely alien and inhuman logic of NATO and capitalism - We're going to spend decades provoking Russia to start a war so we can destabilize Russia, slaughter it's population, and steal everything. If we screw it up the world ends in nuclear fire, but we don't actually care that much because we're NATO psychopaths and ice chewing capitalists. Like even if there weren't any Nazis in Ukraine this war was 100% intentional and carefully, deliberately orchestrated by NATO and the US. For decades. They've been working on this for decades, and everyone knew it right up until this year when it became politically inconvenient to understand what NATO has been doing for a lot of our entire lives.
I hate it, but unless China makes some pretty radical changes to it's foreign policy positions I think we just have to wait and try to keep the fires burning until circumstances change. We're in the middle of a huge fascist resurgence and about eight different civilization crushing crises with no real western leftist movement poised to do anything on a national or international level. This might just be one of those centuries were we try to keep the books in print and not get exterminated by the fash.
Historically it's unlikely. People don't really care about the progress of wars while they're happening. Admittedly the Iraq invasion was a long time ago and my memory is a little foggy, but I don't recall nearly as much daily reporting and propaganda on it compared to Ukraine. Maybe in the first few months. But after a couple of years Americans mostly lost interest and it was just something happening in the background, and a few years later no one except war nerds really know anything about what happened.
I doubt most westerners have any actual knowledge of what's happening in Ukraine. All the sources I see on :reddit-logo: are naked, totally unapologetic propaganda with no assessible truth value. Most people have just bought in to the narrative that, in 2022, for no reason except the love of Evil, Putin invaded the brave, innocent, and patriotic country of Ukraine. And NATO and Europe, out of the kindness of their hearts and their love of justice, are pumping tens of billions of dollars in to this poor, extremely corrupt country that no one cared about last year. And anyone who says that there were any historical events leading up to this war, or that NATO worked tirelessly for thirty years to provoke this war, has been brainwashed by Putin.
It's just kind of how life is. The big capitalists control the media, the government, and the military, so history is whatever is convenient for them. I don't know why some people break out of it and some people don't. For me it was Obama assassinating al-Awlaki and his kid. Just straight up, in the open, unjustified, unapologetic, fully mask off murder of a US citizen while openly and deliberately denying him any kind of due process or ability to protect himself. "Hope and Change" Obama shitting on everything I was taught to believe about the USA was a big enough wake up moment for me to start to realize that all of it, from top to bottom, was lies and brutality and bullshit. But if I hadn't been a politically engaged weirdo to begin with I'm not sure what would have shaken me out of it, if anything.
Here's a good example of how perceptions about WWII changed over the decades
They went from pretty realistic in 1945 - The Soviets did all the heavy lifting, the Allies mostly supplied war materiel and then showed up for a bit at the end - To total Hollywood bullshit by 2000 - America saved the world. Even the article is hemming and hawing about just admitting that the war in Europe happened in the East and everything else was largely incidental.
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I mean even if you took all the Nazis out of the picture, the war in Ukraine is... stupid isn't the right word, but it follows the completely alien and inhuman logic of NATO and capitalism - We're going to spend decades provoking Russia to start a war so we can destabilize Russia, slaughter it's population, and steal everything. If we screw it up the world ends in nuclear fire, but we don't actually care that much because we're NATO psychopaths and ice chewing capitalists. Like even if there weren't any Nazis in Ukraine this war was 100% intentional and carefully, deliberately orchestrated by NATO and the US. For decades. They've been working on this for decades, and everyone knew it right up until this year when it became politically inconvenient to understand what NATO has been doing for a lot of our entire lives.
I hate it, but unless China makes some pretty radical changes to it's foreign policy positions I think we just have to wait and try to keep the fires burning until circumstances change. We're in the middle of a huge fascist resurgence and about eight different civilization crushing crises with no real western leftist movement poised to do anything on a national or international level. This might just be one of those centuries were we try to keep the books in print and not get exterminated by the fash.