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Ignore the clickbait title this is a really fascinating video.
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I will describe a community which has taken a virtual world and turned it back into a data-base
that's too good a description
I played on an RP server and it was so fun, people LOVED transmog and it actually gave new life to old content as people would be constantly farming stuff for old unique models, made power leveling alts super easy too.
People would come up with some really awesome costumes too. Sometimes I would go do world PVP in what looked like just a kilt and a wolf mask.
Yeah it was still pretty toxic but I tried to make it better. I was a prominent figure on my server and I can attest to the challenge of keeping bigotry out of a top guild.
Like the part in this video where they mention how guilds striving for records becoming toxic missed a key point: Many of them would excuse toxic behavior just because someone was "good" but that might have even just meant they had really good gear but were mediocre in terms of real skill and were overall a detriment to guild cohesion and community health.
It goes far beyond just excusing toxic behaviour.
CW: SA
Some of the biggest WoW organization have explicitly supported rapists. If I recall correctly, a couple years back a guy from Method raped a woman, then trotted her out on his stream the next morning very clearly having been crying. His stream was rightfully blacklisted, and Method members actually tried to get public opinion on the rapist's side. Once public opinion very obviously soured against them, you know, defending a rapist, they all left the "toxic organization" and reformed as Echo.
Garbage men shouldn't have to share a title with these fucking monsters. Fuck them.
I'm gonna take a solid guess and say the server is ---- lmao
lol i get it
fuckin psychos roam those lands. i took the name out.
If I was actually worried about it I wouldn't have confirmed it, or used this name for that matter.
I wasn't too sure how you'd feel about it so I did it anyway!
I did the same for my name here too lol. I still talk to a small group of people from when I played there in the early 2010s and I'm super thankful they turned out to be leftists as time went on.
This is why the last multiplayer game I dedicated any time to was DotA 2 and once I realized I didn't have the time/energy to be tilted and mad for an hour at a time I just played single player games from then on.
That was the real kicker for me. Bad matches happen in multiplayer, but when you're stuck with the shit lords for an entire hour it really takes a toll on your mental health and propagates a shitty disposition.
"If given a chance,
peoplegamers will optimize the fun out of any game"
This was a really interesting video about how the structure of MMOs ends up incentivizing certain behavior patterns and edging out certain gameplay styles in favor of a dominant mode of play - I especially like the notion that the developers aren't gods of their creation, but subjects of it the same way the players are.
I wonder how you could create an MMO that creates different patterns of behavior in players. As always my mind goes to Star Wars Galaxies, which had some dominant strategies but even among top players functioned more like an interactive chat room than a game (until the New Game Engine which tried to turn it into WoW and everybody hated it).
I think there might be some merit in a game that hides the numbers from the playerbase - ie make all math happen server side and just give the players a kind of vague idea about what does what. While that would probably piss off the core MMO playerbase who are used to being able to theorycraft down to 0.01% precision, a lot of people bemoan the lack of mystique in games of the internet era and an MMO that hides a ton of information server side might be the only way to restore some of that lost feeling of discovery. You could even beat the data miners by having some spoilery things only get downloaded when they're about to be relevant - this might kill latency, but you could spin that as part of the authentic 00s MMO experience.
Monster Hunter used to be really cool about that. There's no health bars, just physical evidence of the monster's injuries/exhaustion/etc, and extra blood spatter or other gamefeel "juice" if you're hitting a weak point. You judged your performance by feeling out kill times and getting more consistent/not dying.
Then they added floating damage text and I will still call that a mistake.
I think there might be some merit in a game that hides the numbers from the playerbase - ie make all math happen server side and just give the players a kind of vague idea about what does what. While that would probably piss off the core MMO playerbase who are used to being able to theorycraft down to 0.01% precision, a lot of people bemoan the lack of mystique in games of the internet era and an MMO that hides a ton of information server side might be the only way to restore some of that lost feeling of discovery. You could even beat the data miners by having some spoilery things only get downloaded when they’re about to be relevant - this might kill latency, but you could spin that as part of the authentic 00s MMO experience.
People will 100% number crunch in order to figure out the hidden formula even if you can somehow stop data miners and leaks. Speedrunners pretty much try to reverse engineer the game's code.
This happened to path of exile, the damage you do is mostly obfuscated, but there's an entirely separate 3rd party app that you can download your whole character into to figure out your actual damage. It's bad enough like this, I can't imagine how toxic it would be if there were actual dps meters.
This is basically how FF14 does it, which leads to a :meow-popcorn: situation where you get what can only be called "elitist casuals" who report you for giving other players hints.
lmao yeah they suck too. MMOs are at their best when everybody is playing how they want and they take their party members' playstyles in stride, but no matter what you do you're going to get some amount of entitled people trying to force everybody else to play the way they want.
Yeah, but it's much less of an omnipresent player culture thing when there's a barrier in the way.
You could sidestep a lot of this with a different approach to loot. It seems like Warcraft's feedback loop started at Loot With Good Numbers being the reward for Difficult Raids (from the very rough and distant perspective of an outsider with no interest in WOW). Don't do that. Don't reward the players looking for a challenge with stuff that makes the game easier. If you can, reward gameplay with more gameplay. If you can't, go with something cosmetic. You'll still end up with players grinding for the clout of a neat hat, but at least that social pressure won't be reinforced with mechanical pressure.
Even then just having the cosmetic items from completing difficult challenges would be seen as a bar. Oh you haven't downed the Giga Cum Dragon yet? Then I can assume you're hot trash.
I especially like the notion that the developers aren’t gods of their creation, but subjects of it the same way the players are.
This is why I find systems theory and cybernetics so interesting. When you put enough people in a room and give them the tools to interact/connect, even if you try your best to control or design the system to behave in a way you want, the system almost has a mind of its own, or at least a steady-state it will reach after a while. Understanding the system and even trying to nudge it becomes an exceedingly complex problem.
yeah, I've been thinking this stuff myself. It kinda makes it work and not play when everything you do has to be "efficient"
theorycraft down to 0.01% precision
Hey now, we cap error in our simulations at 0.05% precision. No I am not making this up.
I think there might be some merit in a game that hides the numbers from the playerbase - ie make all math happen server side and just give the players a kind of vague idea about what does what.
That's how I played my second run of Horizon: Zero Dawn. I realized that the game does a great job of visually showing you how damaged an enemy is (aside from humans really). Fixating on the health bar really took away from the awesome immersion of it all, so I just turned off enemy health bars. Fights were a lot more stressful, visceral, and fun. I felt much more like an actual hunter trying to take down this huge, robotic beast with only visual cues to know how well I was doing
OK, now that I've seen it,
How are there "professional" guilds? Where does the money come from? Twitch?
Individual members will hustle on Twitch to earn money and try to build up a personal brand, and the organization itself usually gets sponsorships ranging from mainstream stuff (PC builders, gamer chair dropsellers) to dubious-at-best corporations (think Brain Force Max, but for gamers instead of chuds :same-picture:).
There are a handful of guilds that compete for world firsts when new raid content is released, I think they typically play on the PTR beforehand to get experience with the fights, seems to attract a sizable portion of the community.
I’m going to not watch the video and assume it’s taking about Warcraft 3. And I 100% agree. You should know what towers to build in winter maul wars
if its rude to be bad at video games then i'm the rudest tootinest mfer in azeroth :brace-cowboy:
Sucking at videogames to fulfill a brat fetish is a new one for me.
For what it's worth, I think Olson's work is of the small subset of videos that actually merit the word "essay."
I think the standards of what makes a "good" "video essay" are as yet undetermined, and I think the Breadtube subreddit failed to give a satisfactory answer to that question.
there's also these travelogues from Noah Caldwell-Gervais that straight up have serious literary merit. they capture something priceless about the state of the American west at the very edge of the precipice, before climate change chokes what life is left out of the region. it's a genuinely beautiful series.
Yeah it really sums up a lot of feelings I had about the game when I used to play. Gamers ruin videogames.
Boy this is activating some emotions in me. Nostalgia? Regret? Frustration? Something like that.
One of my best friends lost his job and just played WOW for two years. He changed badly.
