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Join an org
Volunteer at a soup kitchen
Join a community soccer team/running club/hiking group/dance troupe/choir or whatever
Take cheap classes at community centres
Join an org
Get involved in the most left municipal political party
Go to Meetups about things you're interested in
Join a book club
Join an org
Attend community activities that get posted as places like the library
Join a board game community
Oh and join an org
You can't just guarantee that you'll meet someone you vibe with with one of these things, you gotta keep trying new things and putting yourself or there. There's a lot of inertia at the start but the more people you meet the more it starts to build a momentum. Good luck.
avoid pain and boredom.
i've got some videogame friends but they're not local and I can't afford to move.
navigating social situations is exhausting and feels like self-harm
Honest question, why even bother with communism, anarchism or any form of leftwing political theory if you hate other people? It is just about being ontologically correct?
yup, I said that I hate other people. that's exactly what I meant. I also love seeing ableism on this website and especially in this com.
Well you at least seem to hate being around them, which is, in fact, incredibly necessary for organization and change? You literally believe navigating standard social situations is, and I quote, 'self-harm'.
I feel very attacked for asking an honest question, like describing the question as 'ableist', to me, feels combative, as opposed to illuminative. But whatever, if you don't want to answer it, fine.
how is it that you manage to be here and apparently have no idea of the trauma neurotypical society and social norms inflict on people who don't effortlessly conform?
And that's completely understandable. I'd say that is the general position of most of the misanthropic and 'anti-social outside of the internet' people on this forum. That being said, being a Millenarian advocate leads to different conclusions and analysis than being a 'Scientific Socialist'.
For one, every version of socialism that has ever been successful in the long term is and has been a highly sociable organization. Knowing your community is a huge part of a successful pursuit of any kind of positive change, period. You have to fight alienation with humanization, which is an incredibly difficult task in a society where alienation is the default state of things. The weird thing to me about a rabid defense of isolation is that, even most Millenarian advocates also recognize humanization as the key to success, it's just that most of them use that as a way to create cults of personality that that attempt to break away from society but cannot escape becoming a reflection of it. A Millenarian advocate for isolation, imo, far more resembles a libertarian or technocrat liberal in their understanding and dealing with people and the concept of humanization, which is how I struggle to even conceive of a 'communism' that can advocate for that. Obfuscating the contradiction with mental-health language does nothing to ease or progress the dialectic, imo.
Personally, this is where I find ideas of personal growth to be helpful. Not in a 'you can suddenly fix yourself and your insecurities and then because of that become happy, successful and wealthy within society' nonsense way. In a 'it has been show, scientifically, that you can overtime make improvements within your physicality and social skills, you may never 'master it' but the more you exercise it, the better overtime you get at something'. And this is well within a 'scientific socialist' framework of understanding, and things that have been advocated for within socialist countries. That doesn't mean you have to be 100% productive all of the time, but what it does mean is that improving yourself and your skills is something that every successful communist party advocates for. Hell, I'd go so far to say as that is the whole point of attempting to reach communism, it's to give you more time to do those things that relate to yourself and those immediately around you, rather than get better at making money for an entity that you are ultimately alienated from.
I understand that. As much as I hate generalized liberal platitudes and other forms of psycho-babble, based off of what you are saying I do think you should try to engage in a behavioral psychological technique called 'positive visualization'. This term has been bastardized by the self-help community over the last couple of decades as 'mantras' or 'manifestations', but it's a far more meta-concept than that. It's not magic, it's a deconstruction of your own thought process.
Basically, if you would like, a couple times a day, try to imagine yourself engaging with people in positive way. I know you said that 'you can't see yourself doing it' but I refuse to believe that your imagination is that limited. After all, if I am reading your words correctly, you are perfectly capable of imagining a catastrophized interaction, which is a far more involved and dramatic imagining. And once you've done that positive visualization, then think about how that was an imagined conversation. In the same way, if your ever find your brain wandering off and catastrophizing a potential interaction, try to stop and think about how that was also an imagined conversation. Basically, you are trying to, through conscious choices and oppositional thinking, recognize when you are imagining things. For some people it helps to keep track of when those thoughts happen, how many times a day, what the nature of the imagination is, how long it had been since you ate (people get incredibly grumpy if they haven't eaten). None of this involves actually having to go talk to people, but it is a recognition of the difference between the material and the ideological.
However, this is just a first step. If you aren't seeing a reduction in those thoughts despite sticking to a plan, that might be indicative of actual brain-chemistry issues, not just learned behavioral thought patterns. But if you do see or feel a reduction, then you can, if you want, actually go out and try to interact with people. Who knows, maybe I am incorrect and you will always have a bad time (I personally doubt that, I have known some very strange people be incredibly social and liked, but I am not you and I don't live in your area). But at least you didn't imagine yourself having a bad time beforehand thus poisoning the well.
this is a question I ask myself a lot, because I'm also very exhausted by interaction with people outside of basic pleasantries. I don't hate people, but I can tell something is very wrong when I spend time with them more than perhaps ten minutes. I've done org work and even union organizing, but things had to remain very on-topic, involve a lot of awkward silence (for hours), or else I started feeling very, very bad.
My particular illness has been diagnosed as "avoidant personality disorder" by a few doctors if that helps.
and my personal political inclination is the realization that left-wing politics would be most beneficial to me personally. I hate paying rent, hate my job, and I want better/free healthcare.
This is more understandable to me. I certainly get having anxiety around social situations, and focusing on a specific task rather than socializing, It's just that, theory without praxis is just navel-gazing, which is fine, but it kinda defeats the purpose of being a leftist, unless you take the option the whole facade will simply crumble on its own (which is possible) but even then, understanding how that will affect your own community is how change is made.
Oh yeah, I came to that realization myself a while ago, that if I'm doing nothing then I'm essentially just an extra angry liberal. And that over a long enough time span, being alone and head full of angry leftist thoughts would transform me into a bitter, incomprehensible crank. I didn't want that, and unfortunately I think I'm halfway there already.
So I have done work, handed out food, lots of things. Never manifested a friendship though, that just doesn't seem to work. Puzzle pieces don't fit. I haven't accomplished much either, like at this point it feels like the praxis was just done out of personal validation more than anything else. It's kept me relatively normal. I have some ability to talk with other people for a few minutes at a time.
I agree with everything you said and I am happy to hear your progress. That being said, I am of the opinion that old age makes incomprehensible cranks of us all. Too much time, not enough similar cultural touchstones, etc.
Friendship is a difficult thing and rarely comes out of politics. Too much jockeying and signalling. You'd be better off trying to make friends at a dart league, even if you have to deal with the occasional off-color comment or stupid political opinion. However, in my experience you'll find people are, in general, more accepting of weird leftist bullshit than you'd think, and are even more accepting of it if they already like you for other reasons.
maybe someday i'll fully give up and :william-van-spronsen: but otherwise, until society changes enough to be accessible, i'm stuck being a bookshelf or cussing out people online.
in the meantime it would be cool if folks would stop replying to "x is hard" with "just try to do x anyway"
William Van Spronson had a long and productive life within the anarchist mileau of the U.S. long before before he decided to be a martyr. He went out and talked to people for a long time before he decided to take matters into his own hands.
I'm not saying 'just do x anyways'. I'm saying that telling other people that 'x is self-harm' when, for most leftist people, it's really not, is self-defeating, nihilistic and non-materialist.
Imo, communism isn't about being correct online, it's about theorizing and then building structures to supplant and combat capitalism. Cussing out people online is fine, it's just that if that is all you do you will form a warped perspective of 'people' because this is an awful Skinner box that is generally only reflective of the most anti-social aspects of humanity. Again, imo.
His name was Willem.
and i said that it feels like self-harm. you know, to me. because it does. But i'm sure you know my suffering better than I do. Putting myself in social situations that make me want to die is definitely going to meaningfully contribute to the revolution.
Social shit is very hard to do, but these are good suggestions, especially when you're not used to it. Socialising in our society is not an easy thing and I 110% empathise with the struggle. If you genuinely cannot find a single org/class/group that even slightly aligns with your interests, you may just have to put up with doing something you're not passionate about in order to meet others.
I'm extremely bad at social stuff, but found a local walking group easy because it means silences aren't awkward, talk can just happen as/when it happens, or I can even just say very little if I'm not feeling it. I'm not particularly into walking, and I'm not that good at talking, but it's a way for me to be part of a group, have an occasional fun chat when the moment arises, and get exercise in.
i had a group thing or two pre-covid but nothing ever escalated.
it's so difficult to want to do anything and then actually go through the ordeal for a chance at something that depends on the interest and investment of strangers.
maybe there's a cult somewhere that just does the love bombing part and skips the low-protein gruel and mass weddings.
Join an org but I would say don't join an org with making friends as your first or even a high priority
Building connections should be a top priority but imo, org work should be treated like a workplace (one that isn't capitalist soul drain). Keep things professional and put an honest effort in. Try to not let personal drama ruin the dynamics of the org
You make a good point. We shouldn’t try to make our cause become drone-like like liberal think tanks. However, I would say that sentiment should be more applicable to broader organizations like a socialist party where people are seeking to change not just the economy but also the nature of social interactions.
If the organization you’re attending is something specific like food banks, animal shelter, etc. then maybe go with the flow to avoid disruption and socialize whenever you can.
Funny, that's exactly what Christian missionaries did when they were sent to distant lands.
I mean I don't really think you should be doing any of these things with the primary aim of making friends, but rather to live a rich and varied life interacting with other people and pursuing your interests. But ultimately this is how new friends are made, by going out and engaging with people socially until you meet people you click with.
I've made friends recently in my new city by playing table tennis at a club, pickup pickleball (lol) at a public court, and volunteering at a food kitchen place
My other friends have made friends by going to weekly board game nights at a bar, going to small underground music shows, playing pickup volleyball
The most important thing is to go to some event that occurs regularly so that you can build up a connection with other people that also go regularly
I'm not going to lie, if your interests aren't inherently very social interests (I like getting high by myself, listening to music by myself, and reading political analysis/economic analysis/history by myself more than anything else), you will have to force yourself to do some things you don't like. Then you can always drop the activity after you start making friends to hang out with outside that activity
There is a local game & comic store that hosts card games & crap that I’ve been trying to get involved with, but any time I go there people just are not willing to engage with me
Nerds have that problem. They're so used to people being dicks to them that they think this is the normal mode of human interaction. Thus it's really hard to get in with them, because they take any opportunity to turn the table and be the one doing the ostracizing for once.
So with regard to the game store thing. You do kinda have to insert yourself into conversations. Or just come out and say you're trying to make friends when talking to someone. It doesn't always work, but it will eventually. People naturally tend to talk to people they already know most of the time. There's some stonewallers out there, but most people will open up once it's apparent that it's like, ok, to be talking to you and you want to be talked to.
I guess it's true that not all small towns are the same. You can have a town of barely 15k that's well-connected and diverse and bustling, that practically invites you in, and you can have a town of up to 100k that's a sleepy glorified residential subdivision.
Sometimes there's an advantage to living in a place where everyone has a commonality of location, as opposed to a metropolis where some can live completely sequestered away, with everyone else out of sight and out of mind. In small- to mid-size towns, you have practical, situational ties with the other residents even if you have nothing else in common with them. And therein lies a potential for impact. In the big city, nobody gives a shit about you, the show will go on just fine with or without you.
Another aspect is that people make friends in their workplaces. This has always been true everywhere, but in this age of increased isolation and especially in towns with less civic engagement, it is common to see friend groups firmly delineated by place of employment. In jobs where I have worked, usually there's maybe 10% of employees that are progressive enough for me to really call friends. Sometimes they leave before I can get a good readout though.
If you want to PM me, I'd be happy to exchange details and stories and tips and tricks around finding and building community in more rural places.
Yeah I get what you mean.
I've tried to be a social butterfly lately but I'm still more or less where I was before. You can get people to talk about certain things but there's no real connection. If they already have friends then they don't really feel a need to talk to you beyond pleasantries. If they don't have friends, they're probably at least made peace with being friendless and still aren't interested. I guess not having any mainstream interests is part of that but it still sucks.
Hobby groups and organization can help but there ain't shit within an hour and a half from me. I'd look at your area and see if you got something you're interested in.
In atomized western life, aside from forced proximity (school, work), people build connections through activities.
Like, you know those stupid-ass adult kickball leagues? Well 9/10 of the teams are really just about folks having some fun doing something stupid and then drinking beer afterwards. There are a lot of things like this.
One nice thing about this is that you've got options: you can find people doing an interest you already enjoy or you can develop a new interest.
What are some things you enjoy doing?
Find a hobby group, join an org and be social with the people in it
Know it is easier said than done, but like, that's worked for my neurodivergent ass
I wish I had an answer. Even people I share things in common with I'm not sure at all how to interact with them. All my interests are solitary, like reading or collecting stuff. I don't get a lot out of interpersonal relationships. I run out of things to say or...I don't know how to say this without sounding like an asshole, I just don't care about people's personal lives. I don't feel involved or curious or anything. I have to force myself to act social and pleasant, but it's just an act. It always feels wrong and forced. I've never met another person who felt natural to be with.
I have joined orgs, volunteered, etc. I still do work with Food not Bombs occasionally. Even then it's difficult. Like I'm just there to do work and leave. I've been invited for drinks or food with the folk, and I will, but nothing's ever turned into a friendship. Just a kind of platonic respect where we don't say much.
The problem's definitely me. I've got bad, medically diagnosed social anxiety and should be on meds. Being around other people for primarily social reasons makes me hate myself. So if any of that sounds like you, I guess my advice is get on therapy and meds, because that's probably what I need.
