When liberals repeat the lie of "the Red Army were a bunch of barbaric savages who raped their way across Eastern Europe" they implicitly justify the Nazi policy of conscripting children and disabled people into hopeless human wave attacks
That's it, that's the post
Sorry guys, in this army of millions there's some shitty people. Resisting fascism was wrong and we're just gonna have to let all of the jews, gays, gypsies, Belarusians, and 10s of millions of other people die.
Next time we need to stand back and learn from the liberals. Surely they won't create an environment where reactionary tendencies will flourish.
Literal projection too the soviets had an execution order for any soldier who touched a woman. To this day the united states would never even conceive of doing that.
Can you source this or point me in the right direction, it's really hard to search for. Almost every result is either Ukraine or the "Rape of Berlin"
oh god i should have saved the link its literally fucking impossible to find now. and i have to search through all these fucking links talking about like 60 million assaults over and over again its really difficult for me to keep searching. on wikipedia all references have been scrubbed except a cross-reference in "Rape during the Soviet occupation of Poland" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_Soviet_occupation_of_Poland#cite_note-Kochanowski-146-10
German women were protected (at least partially) by strict instructions about their treatment during transfer, issued by the Soviet command. However, there were no such instructions, or any instructions whatsoever about the Poles
so here they are admitting that there was a strict protection order on german women and using the order's existence to say that polish people were assaulted in higher proportions.
it was an official order by soviet command and archived on marxists.org im sure
Very cool thank you, that's better than nothing and is good enough to look into further
i archieved this r/genzhou post when it was still around
there's also this reserch paper that is also mentioned in the post
In German Cold War anti-communist discourses, the image of the Red Army as a “horde of rapists” worked as a strategy of exclusion in the construction of a national identity based on “Western values.” This paper analyzes the ideological dimension of the stereotypes of raped women and constructions of masculinity in two emblematic texts about the flight and expulsion of Germans from Eastern and Central Europe, and an anti-communist American propaganda novel. The mass rapes of German women in the context of World War II were signified as the result of “Asian barbarism” and communism. The instrumentalization of wartime rapes, by demonizing the Soviet Union, fostered the two pillars of foreign policy in the Federal Republic: European integration and the transatlantic alliance.
found this reddit thread and i'll just quote this response a bit:
I would like to begin with a quote by Joseph Stalin.
"Officers and men of the Red Army! We are entering the country of the enemy. The remaining population in the liberated areas, regardless of whether they’re German, Czech, or Polish, should not be subjected to violence. The perpetrators will be punished according to the laws of war. In the liberated territories, sexual relations with females are not allowed. Perpetrators of violence and rape will be shot.” - J.V. Stalin, Order of the Day, January 19, 1945.That is a direct quote from Stalin which you can easily find. But of course it is even easier to find western propaganda.
more
Another quote from the book Browder & Kerensky, 1961.
However, four months later, on July 12th of 1917, the death penalty was restored for all military crimes, murder, rape, and offences against the state committed during war time (Browder & Kerensky, 1961). This measure was adopted by the Provisional government as a result of the deteriorating political and economic situation in Russia due to its unsuccessful participation in WWI and associated civil disturbancesAfter the war Soviet officers began mass executing thousands of their own soldiers. The reason? War rape. Almost all Russian WW2 historians support this. One such example is Oleg Rzheshevky.
According to Oleg Rzheshevsky, a President of the Russian Association of World War II Historians, 4,148 Red Army officers and many soldiers were convicted of atrocities and punished with capital punishment, while only 69 U.S. soldiers were executed.And
Makhmut Gareev states that he had not even heard about sexual violence. He says that "instances of cruelty, including sexual, occurred", and that they "simply could not be absent after what the Nazis did" in the USSR, but also states that "such cases were strongly suppressed and punished," and that "they did not become widespread." He notes that the Soviet military leadership signed an executive order on 19 January 1945 that demanded the prevention of cruel treatment of the local population.Now this article is perfect for what you are looking for. (Google translate works better than expected.) And will be the primary source I will be quoting. (Although I will also be posting the name of books I am quoting in brackets.) That is also the source for the Oleg Rzheshevsky comment.
The myth that Stalin and other high ranking officials at the time ordered the mass rape of civilians of any nation is not only entirely wrong but also had 2 primary origins and one secondary. The two primary origins were Anthony Bivor and goebbels. Goebbels began the myth that the red army was so ruthless and ravenous that they would rape any woman aged 10-70.
"In all villages and cities, all German women aged 10 to 70 were subjected to countless rapes. the behavior of a Soviet soldier can be seen as an explicit system."This was where the rape of millions myth began. His evidence for the rapes themselves began with him using one unidentified rape as a way to mobilize civilians to rise against the, and I quote, "Russian Mongol savages." Sadly I no longer have a source for that last part. (as the link I used to use no longer works) Also notice the statement of "The behavior of the Soviet soldiers can be seen as an explicit system." Direct propaganda.
Anthony took this a step further.
However, Bivor surpassed Goebbels. Without any documentary evidence or at least non-anonymous testimony, he states: "According to the estimates of the two main Berlin hospitals, the number of raped Soviet soldiers ranges from 95 to 130 thousand people."One doctor concluded that only in Berlin some 100,000 women were raped ... Apparently, much more if you take into account the 1 million 400 thousand raped in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia. It seems that about two million German women were raped."With no evidence he claimed two million people were raped. TWO MILLION... He is one of the primary source for all western historians... To give you an idea of their validity. He is basically the big black book of Communism but for the Red army.
Now the secondary source is the book and individual who started the myth that Stalin told his soldiers to start raping. The book and individual in question are, "Conversations with Stalin" by Milovan Djilas. The book was what first stated that Stalin and other officials ordered the rape of civilians. (The book itself being as factual as the black book)
Now to give you an idea of how trustworthy Milovan is, he hated and slandered Stalin any chance he got. He felt that khrushchev was a far smarter, cunning, intelligent, and capable leader. And also has a book praising Gorbachev to the point of claiming he was not only a great leader, but he did the right thing.
too long to quote in full but there's some good stuff there
please let me know if you find the source too. the best i could find right now is a reference to executions of soldiers found guilty of rape in magdeburg and this bit:
After everything we've suffered at the hands of th e Germans, the desire to pay them back for the tear s of suffering of the Soviet people is a genuine huma n emotion . But the soldiers of the Red Army are bette r and more noble than [to allow] the blind feeling o f revenge . We occupied Germany as victors . . . . Soldiers of th e Red Army take pride in our great victory, in the powe r and glory of the Soviet fatherland and would not fo r anything undermine their authority as victors . Th e most thoroughgoing execution of all the laws and codes , iron discipline, high organization, the strictes t order -- this is the unbreakable law for all Sovie t soldiers, and especially for those abroad . They ar e distinguished by their irreproachable correctness , collectivity, and by their smart appearance, bot h individually and as a group, inspiring the respect o f those around them
which is obviously mostly an implied order of how soviet soldiers should conduct themselves but the article i remembered was very much along the same lines. it may have been authored by stalin himself but im not exactly sure.
found these cynically framed in american historian Norman M. Naimark's The Russians In Germany: The History Of The Soviet Zone Of Occupation, 1945–1949, however he also wrote a book called "Stalin's Genocides" talking about "Naimark compares Stalin’s crimes with those of the most notorious genocidal killer of them all, Adolf Hitler." because of the kulaks so he's very obviously an anticommunist historian. https://www.ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/pre1998/1991-802-14-2-Naimark.pdf
Yes, the west will never forgive Stalin and the Soviet people for defeating fascism. :stalin-gun-1::stalin-gun-2:
Similarly, when someone repeats the lie of "the Russians are savage orcs raping their way across Ukraine" they implicitly justify the Banderite policy of conscripting children and elderly people into hopeless "counter offensives"
"oh no don't worry, we've depoliticized our pogrom squads a long time ago. If you can find a single Roma in Kiev that will dispute this claim, I want to know their name and location"
/r/europe any time the Wehrmacht is brought up: Hans was just a good boy who was forced by Hitler to murder and defile all lands east of Germany
/r/europe any time the Red Army is brought up:
Wait, is it the contention here that the Red Army did not commit rape in it's campaign to Berlin? They definitely did. it was WWII, every side and faction was out there committing sex crimes.
I don't think anybody is making that claim, but liberals often portray the Red Army as uniquely filled with savages and rapists, to the point of comparing it unfavorably to the Wehrmacht by saying stuff like "The Wehrmacht was respectful to people in occupied territories (which says a lot about who liberals consider 'people') but the Red Army just raped everybody"
The Wehrmacht literally sent out wagons to capture any woman or girl over the age of 14 and enslave them to be comfort women
The contention is that the red army did it roughly as much as the allies but were a far far larger force. The entire point of the propaganda is to paint the red army as monsters and the liberation of Europe as a negative thing.
the way i’ve seen liberals frame it is that the red army codoned it basically, that it was unique to them, and just shit like that
I thought the human wave attack was a Red Army tactic. The fascists were always short on troops.
I don't think it was a "Red Army tactic(tm)" and more of an individual unit thing. The notion that the USSR used human waves as an official strategy is a Nazi lie
It's standard game theory: i.e. if you've got more pieces, trade material until you win.
Each commander, Red Army soldier and political commissar should understand that our means are not limitless. The territory of the Soviet state is not a desert, but people - workers, peasants, intelligentsia, our fathers, mothers, wives, brothers, children. The territory of the USSR which the enemy has captured and aims to capture is bread and other products for the army, metal and fuel for industry, factories, plants supplying the army with arms and ammunition, railroads.
Therefore it is necessary to eliminate talk that we have the capability endlessly to retreat, that we have a lot of territory, that our country is great and rich, that there is a large population, and that bread always will be abundant. Such talk is false and parasitic, it weakens us and benefits the enemy, if we do not stop retreating we will be without bread, without fuel, without metal, without raw material, without factories and plants, without railroads.
This leads to the conclusion, it is time to finish retreating.
Not one step back!
Order No. 227, 28 July 1942, Joseph Stalin
I recall reading it was post-war coping from the Nazi generals the US recruited to understand soviet doctrine. They couldn't conceive of having lost due to superior tactics etc because the slavic untermenschen is supposed to be incapable of thought, so it must have been sheer weight of numbers.
Nah, napoleon did it though. Specifically. So once again it is projection.
