You would think "intelligence" officials would understand how large space is and how comparatively tiny our radio bubble is. Aliens showing up to earth would be like me walking to the other side of the planet to find a specific carbon atom.
As (potentially) cool as it would be to have hard evidence of extraterrestrial life visiting earth, I'm inclined to believe the same.
The only situation I could envision this being true would be some nearby civilization (on a galactic scale) sending out millions of small probes, but even then, any civilization with the technology and means to do that probably wouldn't need the probe to actually land on the planet to gather whatever data they wanted. I think if faster-than-light travel were possible, we would have been large-scale visited already.
One way that we could potentially detect another advanced civilization without direct communication would be if they built a Dyson sphere, but due to the speed of light we would be watching it happen hundreds or thousands of years in the past.
you'd also have to observe the process over centuries or millenia as it would be built. So were we are at right now basically for the next 100 years if we're staring consistently
You've packed in a whole lot of assumptions there. You assume they're even looking for radio and don't have some other means of detecting life. You're also assuming they or we are very rare, maybe there's both lots of aliens and lots of undeveloped civilizations like ours. Maybe they have hyperdrive and can zap from one end of the galaxy to the other quickly.
I think we have too many unknown unknowns in our models of the universe to assume this or that about alien life.
Ironically you've packed in more assumptions, seemingly based on things that are currently pure Sci-Fi.
All I'm saying is that intelligent life is likely rare enough that there won't be any within easy reach of us. There are 200 billion stars in our galaxy, it's likely we share it with someone. But the galaxy is 105,000 light years across, and our bubble, radio or otherwise, is only 218 light years. The likelihood of them finding us among 200 billion systems when we are, as far as we know, completely unobservable to anything but our closest possible neighbors, is astronomically tiny.
Anyone with sufficiently advanced technology to not only find us, but get to us, is advanced enough to do so without leaving evidence of having been here.
Anyone with sufficiently advanced technology to not only find us, but get to us, is advanced enough to do so without leaving evidence of having been here.
True, they might not care if we see them tho, or maybe they want to be seen to an extent. What I'm saying is no assumption is really better than the other because the possibility space is huge and we don't really have a solid idea what's more and less likely.
It becomes even less likely by orders of magnitude when you consider the timescales involved. Humans as a species have only existed for a few hundred thousand years on a planet that is 4.5 billion years old. And written human history only begins about 6 thousand years ago. Even if aliens somehow came to earth, what are the chances they would land during the .00001% of its existence when humanity had the capability of understanding what they saw and could document it properly?
The timescales can work in the other direction as well - a self replicating Von Neumann probe could have a presence in every star system within a million years or so, even while traveling at sublight speeds.
All that you say is true. Nonetheless what do you do when an archeological dig unearths these objects made of inexplicable materials that we are not able to replicate with the highest technology we have on Earth?
I like her reasoning down below where she says they keep it secret because they don't want unstoppable weapons. yeah, sure. the military would hate to have those
What, the materials? Well obviously we don't know. But materials that defy the laws of physics as we know them. For example, being able to make sudden high G turns without slowing down or killing the living beings inside by squashing them against the walls.
XCOM had Elerium-115, and it's long been conjectured that element 115, unlike all the other high atomic number elements, is stable. Who knows what alloys can be made with it? It's enough to keep science occupied for as long as they've been preoccupied with computer chips.
Evidence supporting ancient aliens is purposefully misleading and based on conjecture to support preconceived biases. If you're interested I would recommend the channel "Minuteman" on YouTube who goes through these types of arguments and explains why they are false and what they're leaving out because it doesn't support ancient aliens. Many times what we find is that ancient aliens claims are based on eurocentric notions that non-western cultures would not have been able to achieve what they did
I'm bookmarking this comment to come back to when the announcements are made.
I used to be with the "debunkers" until I saw that it's just an emotional release for them to point at The Other and say, "you're WRONG!" I used to love the Amazing Randi when he would appear on Johnny Carson but when I started reading his stuff it all fell apart for me.
See, you're talking about the crazy UFO cult types while this new evidence is about actual materials of craft recovered. It's easy and emotionally fulfilling to debunk the cult types. They're so cringe. They were the best tool the government ever had to keep people from believing the truth.
See? This is the kind of reaction the "debunkers" have. It's this spiteful, sarcastic throwing rotten tomatoes at The Other that turned me off of their worldview.
All I have to say is, a lot of things people such as Lazar have been saying for a long time seem are being repeated by these highly credible government officials. For the past few years they've been leaking info bit by bit to get us psychologically ready for the "we are not alone" moment.
How often does one need to go through debunking a deeply unjustified and chauvinistic ideology before they don't need to take it seriously out of a sense of decorum?
You would think "intelligence" officials would understand how large space is and how comparatively tiny our radio bubble is. Aliens showing up to earth would be like me walking to the other side of the planet to find a specific carbon atom.
As (potentially) cool as it would be to have hard evidence of extraterrestrial life visiting earth, I'm inclined to believe the same.
The only situation I could envision this being true would be some nearby civilization (on a galactic scale) sending out millions of small probes, but even then, any civilization with the technology and means to do that probably wouldn't need the probe to actually land on the planet to gather whatever data they wanted. I think if faster-than-light travel were possible, we would have been large-scale visited already.
One way that we could potentially detect another advanced civilization without direct communication would be if they built a Dyson sphere, but due to the speed of light we would be watching it happen hundreds or thousands of years in the past.
you'd also have to observe the process over centuries or millenia as it would be built. So were we are at right now basically for the next 100 years if we're staring consistently
You've packed in a whole lot of assumptions there. You assume they're even looking for radio and don't have some other means of detecting life. You're also assuming they or we are very rare, maybe there's both lots of aliens and lots of undeveloped civilizations like ours. Maybe they have hyperdrive and can zap from one end of the galaxy to the other quickly.
I think we have too many unknown unknowns in our models of the universe to assume this or that about alien life.
Ironically you've packed in more assumptions, seemingly based on things that are currently pure Sci-Fi.
All I'm saying is that intelligent life is likely rare enough that there won't be any within easy reach of us. There are 200 billion stars in our galaxy, it's likely we share it with someone. But the galaxy is 105,000 light years across, and our bubble, radio or otherwise, is only 218 light years. The likelihood of them finding us among 200 billion systems when we are, as far as we know, completely unobservable to anything but our closest possible neighbors, is astronomically tiny.
Anyone with sufficiently advanced technology to not only find us, but get to us, is advanced enough to do so without leaving evidence of having been here.
True, they might not care if we see them tho, or maybe they want to be seen to an extent. What I'm saying is no assumption is really better than the other because the possibility space is huge and we don't really have a solid idea what's more and less likely.
It becomes even less likely by orders of magnitude when you consider the timescales involved. Humans as a species have only existed for a few hundred thousand years on a planet that is 4.5 billion years old. And written human history only begins about 6 thousand years ago. Even if aliens somehow came to earth, what are the chances they would land during the .00001% of its existence when humanity had the capability of understanding what they saw and could document it properly?
The timescales can work in the other direction as well - a self replicating Von Neumann probe could have a presence in every star system within a million years or so, even while traveling at sublight speeds.
All that you say is true. Nonetheless what do you do when an archeological dig unearths these objects made of inexplicable materials that we are not able to replicate with the highest technology we have on Earth?
What’s an example of that
this person's a right winger. she's been posting the dumbest shit for about a week now.
I like her reasoning down below where she says they keep it secret because they don't want unstoppable weapons. yeah, sure. the military would hate to have those
What, the materials? Well obviously we don't know. But materials that defy the laws of physics as we know them. For example, being able to make sudden high G turns without slowing down or killing the living beings inside by squashing them against the walls.
XCOM had Elerium-115, and it's long been conjectured that element 115, unlike all the other high atomic number elements, is stable. Who knows what alloys can be made with it? It's enough to keep science occupied for as long as they've been preoccupied with computer chips.
:nkrumah-baffled:
you've mistaken bad science fiction for reality, don't do that
I enjoyed the fiction :I-was-saying:
Evidence supporting ancient aliens is purposefully misleading and based on conjecture to support preconceived biases. If you're interested I would recommend the channel "Minuteman" on YouTube who goes through these types of arguments and explains why they are false and what they're leaving out because it doesn't support ancient aliens. Many times what we find is that ancient aliens claims are based on eurocentric notions that non-western cultures would not have been able to achieve what they did
I'm bookmarking this comment to come back to when the announcements are made.
I used to be with the "debunkers" until I saw that it's just an emotional release for them to point at The Other and say, "you're WRONG!" I used to love the Amazing Randi when he would appear on Johnny Carson but when I started reading his stuff it all fell apart for me.
See, you're talking about the crazy UFO cult types while this new evidence is about actual materials of craft recovered. It's easy and emotionally fulfilling to debunk the cult types. They're so cringe. They were the best tool the government ever had to keep people from believing the truth.
you chose to become more gullible because you found critical thinking too smug?
See? This is the kind of reaction the "debunkers" have. It's this spiteful, sarcastic throwing rotten tomatoes at The Other that turned me off of their worldview.
All I have to say is, a lot of things people such as Lazar have been saying for a long time seem are being repeated by these highly credible government officials. For the past few years they've been leaking info bit by bit to get us psychologically ready for the "we are not alone" moment.
How often does one need to go through debunking a deeply unjustified and chauvinistic ideology before they don't need to take it seriously out of a sense of decorum?
"Highly credible government officials"
Have we been observing the same government?
simply dodge the tomatoes. skill issue.
Did you also do that for Robert Kennedy's triumphant return? Maybe the big jubilee where every :grillman: is paid back for their faith? :sus-soviet:
Is there a single actual example of that?