At what point did this become Russia's aggression? Certainly after the fall of the Soviet Union by western backed coup (before which Ukraine and Russia were literally the same country). Did Russia's aggression start when NATO aggressively expanded into the former Eastern bloc after promising not to as a major condition of the USSR's dissolution? How about when Russia subjected its own population to devastating austerity, resulting in untold death and destruction, all in a genuine effort to liberalize and assimilate into NATO themselves? Was that Russia being too aggressive? Or did Russia's aggression not start until after the west continued to wage economic warfare anyway, demonstrating NATO never had any intention to let Russia coexist peacefully on the world stage regardless? How aggressive was it of Russia when the west helped to orchestrate the 2014 Maidan coup in Ukraine to install a rabidly anti-Russian fascist government on one of Russia's largest land borders? I guess Russia was being too aggressive when Ukraine decided to ban the Russian language and shell Russian speaking civilians in Eastern Ukraine for literally years and years in violation of the Minsk agreements, resulting in massive pro-Russian separatist movements forming to fight off Banderite pogroms.
I think I get it now, after exhausting literally all available diplomatic avenues to peace, aggressive Russia started this conflict out of nowhere by supporting the cause of the breakaway republics invading poor innocent Ukraine, wow can't believe a country would go to war like this at the drop of a hat! Irrational aggressive Russia should just take their troops home and surrender all territory back to Ukraine, a country losing a war so badly it's on the verge of collapse.
By your logic, I guess it’s time to eradicate the Jewish population from Israel and hand it back to Palestine, and hey, why not go back even further? Americans should be forced to move back to their countries of origin and hand all lands back to native Americans. Where does this logic lead to? Are you really advocating for wars to break out all over the world over historical deeds? Ukraine has been independent for a very long time. Why did Russia suddenly decide it’s their territory again? Is it about the territory or the supposed Nazis? Can you pro Russia propagandists make up your minds about what exactly the reason for the invasion is?
Great response, I guess challenging your bullshit propaganda simply results in a shut down. Or, maybe, simply speaking in a colloquial western way is too challenging for Russian propagandists?
Here, I'll engage since this is basically the first time you have engaged so far.
By your logic, I guess it’s time to eradicate the Jewish population from Israel and hand it back to Palestine, and hey, why not go back even further?
That doesn't make sense, because Jews have lived in Palestine as Palestinians for centuries. It's just the racist settlers who should leave if they're unwilling to live peacefully, as equals, with Palestinians.
Americans should be forced to move back to their countries of origin and hand all lands back to native Americans.
No, there are no longer any living American settlers to be sent back. The Native Americans that still survive past the American Genocide should be compensated for the crimes against their forbears just to get started.
Where does this logic lead to?
It doesn't, you're not being logical and you're intentionally pretending to misunderstand what people are saying to protect your soft smooth brainlet from having to consider things that might have consequences for the false worldview you've had constructed for you.
Are you really advocating for wars to break out all over the world over historical deeds?
Please quote where anyone said that.
Ukraine has been independent for a very long time.
Ukraine hasn't even been independent for my entire life, what are you talking about? Do you think thirty years is a long time? Are you twelve?
Why did Russia suddenly decide it’s their territory again?
NATO encirclement, something Russia has been warning against for decades now. A CIA coup in 2014 putting literal fascists in power who murdered peaceful supporters of the independent Ukraine government. Eight years of Azov nazis targeting schools, hospitals, government buildings, and critical civilian infrastructure with artillery. Zelensky himself getting elected and telling those Azov nazis to stop doing that (they were violating the Minsk agreements) and the Azov nazis telling him to his face that they would not stop. Biden refusing any diplomatic contact with Russia in the lead up to 2022.
Is it about the territory or the supposed Nazis? Can you pro Russia propagandists make up your minds about what exactly the reason for the invasion is?
It has always been primarily about NATO and nobody here has said anything else - you're the one who thinks it's about expansionist desires. Try to distinguish your own thoughts from the actual statements of others, please.
Ukraine hasn't even been independent for my entire life, what are you talking about? Do you think thirty years is a long time? Are you twelve?
This is the thing that gets me with lemmy libs at times. I want to dunk on them harder, but some of them are so naive and ignorant about basic facts of recent history that in the back of my mind I can't help but think I'm probably talking to an actual, literal child. Then I just feel saddened about it more than anything.
Yeah interacting with lemmitors had the same affect on me as redditors, I become more certain that there is no revolutionary potential anywhere in the West and the third world is the only real hope for a better future
No revolutionary potential to be found in hyper-online west wing watchers. But the 2020 uprisings clearly show there's still a difference between online and the real world
We should hand Palestine back to the Palestinians but eradicating the Zionist invaders won’t be necessary. Most will leave once they lose their privileged status.
At what point did this become Russia's aggression? Certainly after the fall of the Soviet Union by western backed coup (before which Ukraine and Russia were literally the same country). Did Russia's aggression start when NATO aggressively expanded into the former Eastern bloc after promising not to as a major condition of the USSR's dissolution? How about when Russia subjected its own population to devastating austerity, resulting in untold death and destruction, all in a genuine effort to liberalize and assimilate into NATO themselves? Was that Russia being too aggressive? Or did Russia's aggression not start until after the west continued to wage economic warfare anyway, demonstrating NATO never had any intention to let Russia coexist peacefully on the world stage regardless? How aggressive was it of Russia when the west helped to orchestrate the 2014 Maidan coup in Ukraine to install a rabidly anti-Russian fascist government on one of Russia's largest land borders? I guess Russia was being too aggressive when Ukraine decided to ban the Russian language and shell Russian speaking civilians in Eastern Ukraine for literally years and years in violation of the Minsk agreements, resulting in massive pro-Russian separatist movements forming to fight off Banderite pogroms.
I think I get it now, after exhausting literally all available diplomatic avenues to peace, aggressive Russia started this conflict out of nowhere by supporting the cause of the breakaway republics invading poor innocent Ukraine, wow can't believe a country would go to war like this at the drop of a hat! Irrational aggressive Russia should just take their troops home and surrender all territory back to Ukraine, a country losing a war so badly it's on the verge of collapse.
By your logic, I guess it’s time to eradicate the Jewish population from Israel and hand it back to Palestine, and hey, why not go back even further? Americans should be forced to move back to their countries of origin and hand all lands back to native Americans. Where does this logic lead to? Are you really advocating for wars to break out all over the world over historical deeds? Ukraine has been independent for a very long time. Why did Russia suddenly decide it’s their territory again? Is it about the territory or the supposed Nazis? Can you pro Russia propagandists make up your minds about what exactly the reason for the invasion is?
I'm sorry but your reply is literally incoherent, and I'm not sure what if anything in my comment caused your brain wormed mind to react like this.
Great response, I guess challenging your bullshit propaganda simply results in a shut down. Or, maybe, simply speaking in a colloquial western way is too challenging for Russian propagandists?
Here, I'll engage since this is basically the first time you have engaged so far.
That doesn't make sense, because Jews have lived in Palestine as Palestinians for centuries. It's just the racist settlers who should leave if they're unwilling to live peacefully, as equals, with Palestinians.
No, there are no longer any living American settlers to be sent back. The Native Americans that still survive past the American Genocide should be compensated for the crimes against their forbears just to get started.
It doesn't, you're not being logical and you're intentionally pretending to misunderstand what people are saying to protect your soft smooth brainlet from having to consider things that might have consequences for the false worldview you've had constructed for you.
Please quote where anyone said that.
Ukraine hasn't even been independent for my entire life, what are you talking about? Do you think thirty years is a long time? Are you twelve?
NATO encirclement, something Russia has been warning against for decades now. A CIA coup in 2014 putting literal fascists in power who murdered peaceful supporters of the independent Ukraine government. Eight years of Azov nazis targeting schools, hospitals, government buildings, and critical civilian infrastructure with artillery. Zelensky himself getting elected and telling those Azov nazis to stop doing that (they were violating the Minsk agreements) and the Azov nazis telling him to his face that they would not stop. Biden refusing any diplomatic contact with Russia in the lead up to 2022.
It has always been primarily about NATO and nobody here has said anything else - you're the one who thinks it's about expansionist desires. Try to distinguish your own thoughts from the actual statements of others, please.
This is the thing that gets me with lemmy libs at times. I want to dunk on them harder, but some of them are so naive and ignorant about basic facts of recent history that in the back of my mind I can't help but think I'm probably talking to an actual, literal child. Then I just feel saddened about it more than anything.
Yeah interacting with lemmitors had the same affect on me as redditors, I become more certain that there is no revolutionary potential anywhere in the West and the third world is the only real hope for a better future
No revolutionary potential to be found in hyper-online west wing watchers. But the 2020 uprisings clearly show there's still a difference between online and the real world
@blarth@thelemmy.club respond to this.
I'm guessing they won't post again for another few weeks
deleted by creator
Oh cool, genocidal zionist talking points too! Hey if you're gonna embrace fascism may I suggest you skip to the end part?
Jesus christ
We should hand Palestine back to the Palestinians but eradicating the Zionist invaders won’t be necessary. Most will leave once they lose their privileged status.
When they invaded?
Actually childish understanding of geopolitics and history
By this logic entire WW2 was solely US fault.
Lol I mean kind of, but not for the reasons they think
Guess my brain just isn't giant enough to conceive of a world where invading someone is a defensive act.
I'll never be as brilliant or wise as you or George Bush.
It's almost too easy to be fun when you're this stupid