Timestamps:
0:00 - Introduction
04:12 - Pigs
23:19 - Egg-Laying Hens
30:49 - Broiler (Meat) Chickens
41:11 - Turkeys
45:29 - Ducks
53:03 - Cows
1:11:07 - Sheep
1:17:19 - Goats
1:21:57 - Fish
1:26:46 - Rabbits
1:29:24 - Minks
1:30:55 - Foxes
1:32:23 - Dogs
1:37:58 - Horses
1:40:43 - Camels
1:42:16 - Mice
1:43:51 - Exotic Animals
1:46:07 - Seals & Dolphins
1:49:16 - Conclusion
1:55:47 - Closing Credits
This was the doc that sold me fully on going vegan.
If you like meat, learn more about where it comes and the practices you are promoting to access it, then decide whether or not to continue.
I will refer you to this part of the thread where your argument about the iPhone being bad has already been discussed and is a cop-out.
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make about eggs vs quinoa, but there is relatively little comparison in the environmental impact of the two, like when you compare animal products vs. grains (doesn't matter if imported or local). If you're referencing the old headlines speculating that it's production was bad for poor people in Peru, that media speculation was disproven once researchers started looking into it - source source source - and it may be a potentially critical crop for climate change adaptation (though careful planning will be needed to make it sustainable as a climate adaptive crop).
You're annoyed but you're not going to find much sympathy in this thread. Veganism is more than just diet, it is a critical ethical issue that relates to material exploitation of living beings which think, feel, and suffer. It's a moral issue and people get worked about moral issues - that's the point of my post and the articles I linked.
Bolivian farmers don't think, feel, or suffer? Quinoa is the most exploitative food products you can imagine. I'm aware the iPhone play is a cop out, I'm working or I'd type up a better argument. I'm not trying to convince anyone to not be a vegan, I fully support people finding any way to reduce the harm they cause to the environment, to a point. The zealotry associated with veganism is the only issue I take with it.
I'm ignoring your point on quinoa since you ignored my previous response. edit: I do want to add tho that assuming things are zero-sum games (either animals or farmers, rather than animals + farmers) is not usually how things work and perpetuates false pro-capitalist narratives about industrial farming. I got into veganism because I cared about the despicable mistreatment of migrant meat factory workers.
If vegan zealotry is the only issue you take with it, then surely you are also vegan or transitioning to vegan? because what kind of argument is that for not embracing something you fully support based on a vocal minority? Especially since most vegans do not bring this aspect of their lives up in public spaces in everyday life - they just go about their day buying tofu and rice, trying to figure out where to find leather-free shoes for work, and hoping their chud uncle won't give them shit for eating salad and fries at the next family meal out.
I'm not vegan, but pescatarian. I'm aware my opinion on vegans is fully skewed by my interactions with a few, and projecting it on every vegan is problematic. That's kinda the point I'm trying to make, though, some vegans do much the same, but to everyone who isn't vegan.
Totally understand. Some people think bullying works (cough chapo cough) and some do not. Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from too that the hate against vegans is usually disproportionate because of deeper reactance-based psychology and often used to justify not taking action rather than considering the arguments at-hand.