Timestamps:
0:00 - Introduction
04:12 - Pigs
23:19 - Egg-Laying Hens
30:49 - Broiler (Meat) Chickens
41:11 - Turkeys
45:29 - Ducks
53:03 - Cows
1:11:07 - Sheep
1:17:19 - Goats
1:21:57 - Fish
1:26:46 - Rabbits
1:29:24 - Minks
1:30:55 - Foxes
1:32:23 - Dogs
1:37:58 - Horses
1:40:43 - Camels
1:42:16 - Mice
1:43:51 - Exotic Animals
1:46:07 - Seals & Dolphins
1:49:16 - Conclusion
1:55:47 - Closing Credits
This was the doc that sold me fully on going vegan.
If you like meat, learn more about where it comes and the practices you are promoting to access it, then decide whether or not to continue.
:heart-sickle:
Having friends and family to share the interest in going vegan with is very helpful.
Graphic videos aside, if you find vegans "pushy" or "self-righteous", please consider where these feelings might come from and why our emotional reactions to others' is often used to justify not changing our own behavior. For example, studies have found that vegetarians induce feelings of dissonance in otherwise humane meat-eaters and this may be because people who don't eat meat remind us of things we could be doing better but we're choosing not to. These dissonance-induced feelings are literally psychologically reactionary.
Anyone who switched from a conventional lifestyle to one with reduced animal products had the same feelings at some point too.
Vegans ARE annoying though. They'll scold you for eating egg drop ramen while shoving fistfuls of quinoa into their face. It's not dissonance, it's a double standard. Either you're exploiting, or you're starving to death. Wokescolding doesn't help leftist OR vegan causes, you have to realize that a good bit of us are omnivores and eating a burger is no more unethical than owning an iPhone. Yeah, it's all pretty shitty, but you have to consider material conditions when you engage in infighting over fucking diet.
I will refer you to this part of the thread where your argument about the iPhone being bad has already been discussed and is a cop-out.
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make about eggs vs quinoa, but there is relatively little comparison in the environmental impact of the two, like when you compare animal products vs. grains (doesn't matter if imported or local). If you're referencing the old headlines speculating that it's production was bad for poor people in Peru, that media speculation was disproven once researchers started looking into it - source source source - and it may be a potentially critical crop for climate change adaptation (though careful planning will be needed to make it sustainable as a climate adaptive crop).
You're annoyed but you're not going to find much sympathy in this thread. Veganism is more than just diet, it is a critical ethical issue that relates to material exploitation of living beings which think, feel, and suffer. It's a moral issue and people get worked about moral issues - that's the point of my post and the articles I linked.
Bolivian farmers don't think, feel, or suffer? Quinoa is the most exploitative food products you can imagine. I'm aware the iPhone play is a cop out, I'm working or I'd type up a better argument. I'm not trying to convince anyone to not be a vegan, I fully support people finding any way to reduce the harm they cause to the environment, to a point. The zealotry associated with veganism is the only issue I take with it.
I'm ignoring your point on quinoa since you ignored my previous response. edit: I do want to add tho that assuming things are zero-sum games (either animals or farmers, rather than animals + farmers) is not usually how things work and perpetuates false pro-capitalist narratives about industrial farming. I got into veganism because I cared about the despicable mistreatment of migrant meat factory workers.
If vegan zealotry is the only issue you take with it, then surely you are also vegan or transitioning to vegan? because what kind of argument is that for not embracing something you fully support based on a vocal minority? Especially since most vegans do not bring this aspect of their lives up in public spaces in everyday life - they just go about their day buying tofu and rice, trying to figure out where to find leather-free shoes for work, and hoping their chud uncle won't give them shit for eating salad and fries at the next family meal out.
I'm not vegan, but pescatarian. I'm aware my opinion on vegans is fully skewed by my interactions with a few, and projecting it on every vegan is problematic. That's kinda the point I'm trying to make, though, some vegans do much the same, but to everyone who isn't vegan.
Totally understand. Some people think bullying works (cough chapo cough) and some do not. Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from too that the hate against vegans is usually disproportionate because of deeper reactance-based psychology and often used to justify not taking action rather than considering the arguments at-hand.
Have you considered that young vegans are annoying and for the most part can't properly argue for veganism. Not unlike a young leftist.
ahhh yes, and those young vegans and young leftists consider us reactionary old farts. the struggle session never ends
I dont mind vegans living a lifestyle they want and respect them if they respect me. I just hate the condescension where im just uneducated or im just a lower moral character than them. etc.
if they just coexist next to me im fine 100% I hate when they brow beat me when im already miserable and alienated as it is.
We do exist next to you and you don't even know it out in everyday life. Right now, you're on a leftist forum in a thread about veganism complaining about vegans reacting poorly to your anti-vegan stance.
Ill admit Im the asshole here.
and if you look at it in a vacuum ofc this is just a single leftist thread, but it IS a re occurring issue ive noticed and its not merely dissonance.
I would love to become vegan, but if im honest im too drained to do something that dramatic of a change for now. Especially when I really would have to restructure my life im a big way. I dont need a smug asshole talking down to me, it doesnt help. (not you but people in general who say i need to read/watch X and that i have justify myself to them in some way.)
Ill delete my post i made in annoyance and i apologize for the attitude you didn’t deserve that.
absolutely no worries and no need to delete, comrade. our back and forth may help others who are reading along or thinking through their reactions to this thread. i'm sorry to hear you're feeling beat down by things and i can only hope you things start going better for you soon. it took me about a year before i was "mostly vegan", so if you ever get to a place where you want to talk about baby steps feel free to DM.
Your individual choices are meaningless.
This isn't true, evidenced clearly by the huge rise in vegan products being introduced in grocery stores, restaurants, fast food places, etc.
The dairy industry is crashing for a real reason, and not because the dairy producers are happy to let it go.
You're right that corporations will push veganism before taking personal responsibility of course, which is why the push should be against factory farming and massive meat and dairy subsidies first, not blaming meat eaters on an individual level.
Vegans spending the energy they spend trying to get people “woke” to industrial ag on organizing for humane alternatives to capitalism would accomplish 100x more for your goals
This is part of veganism.
My ideal is if you feel strongly enough about the ethical and environmental concerns to be vegan but then do nothing to inform others, you don't really believe in it that strongly.
This documentary is literally exposing the factory farming industry, no part of it blames individuals. That's why I love it and think people should give it a watch.
not blaming meat eaters on an individual level.
You're literally dismissing people as carnists and bloodmouths
it's not a big deal but it's not productive to a good conversation
Yeah, incredible people would whine about this on this site of all places.
The site where users regularly insult each other over not being left enough.
Learn to distinguish what jokes are from reality, liberal.
okay, point still stands that I wouldn't go on reddit to get people on my side by calling them libs and bootlickers
If there was a company slaughtering humans and selling their meat, my first reaction wouldn't be "Aw well, I might as well consume human flesh, they'll probably get subsidies if I don't anyway."
How often do you see the anti-war movement committing major acts of sabotage?
Yes and we must only ever take the most direct route to solving a problem fucking brain dead take dude
Edit: I’m being cute here but it’s a bullshit comparison because the act of cannibalism is so morally repulsive that the scenario of human meat farming is absurd and impossible. In this scenario our systems actually function as intended since the consumption of human flesh is illegal.
This is sort of my point, though. The idea that veganism is a personal responsibility narriative only works if you assume that farming doesn't rise to a sufficiently high leval of moral repugnance. Otherwise we'd all say "fuck the practicalities, there's no way I'm partaking in that", especially when in this case partaking is something as visceral as eating flesh or other animal products. The whole point of videos like the one in the OP is that for many people if they were truly confronted with the realities of livestock farming, it would rise to that level of repugnance.
Even if you don't buy into the compassion toward animals argument or the pollution argument, you could always do it for the purely selfish reasons: Go vegan and lower your chances of stuff like colon cancer and heart disease.
Don't let the suffering machines of capitalism and meat clog your arteries.
Nitpicks from somebody who lives on a small farm.
"... most male cows are killed after just a couple years of life..."
Slaughter weight for cattle is about 12 months for conventional production and might be something like 1.5 to 2 years on a hippy dippy pasture operation, regardless of gender. The longer you keep a cow the more the feed costs add up. And folks who eat meat will complain that the meat is too tough and/or isn't fatty enough.
"Efficiently producing dairy requires constantly impregnating cows..."
You don't need to keep impregnating a cow to have it give milk. (Think about the human who are considered "weird" for breast feeding their child for more than a few years.) A lactating cow will continue to lactate for as long as something is draining the milk from their udders and they are kept reasonably healthy. Breed a cow once, keep it healthy, milk it every day and you can have milk for years. Dairy farms, the actual people working the cows, take the brunt of the dairy industry crash and can be pushed to keep breeding their milking herds to have extra income by selling bulls for breeding/meat and extra cows as replacements/meat.
I think a better term to use is "profitability" not "efficiency". Not letting bull calves stay with their mothers who are being milked in a diary is an economic decision not an efficiency decision. Because feeding bull calves has a cost to the farmer and falling milk prices means every ounce of milk produced needs to be sold to cover expenses of running a dairy farm. Using Jersey cows selectively bred to give several gallons of milk a day instead of a Dexter that typically gives a gallon or less per milking is an economic decision, not an efficiency decision.
Yeah, I may not have read too closely when you mentioned the time period to butcher weight.
Well, I mean, I've been living on a farm with a dozen cows that my wife has been managing and selling the raw milk from for about 5 years now. From what I've seen from watching her work, the claim that any attempt to get milk from a cow means that they have to be constantly bred doesn't seem to pan out. Maybe we're just talking past each other while focusing on different management practices though.
I'm not a fan of the "profit" framing regarding selling bull calves from dairy operations. From what I'm aware of, dairy farms don't get to set their sale price and are stuck taking whatever prices the bottling plant is willing to offer (knowing that the farmer can't afford to withhold and there is no where else to sell too). So when I see the price of milk increase in grocery stores and read about the price of milk falling, I know that its the farmer who's having to take a cut in income. Selling bull calves is just a way to try to close the gap. Like, nobody here would view a person working two jobs to try to keep up with bills as "increasing their profit" from working, right?
Dairy as an inefficient way making food. I'm curious to hear what you have to say about that (honestly). From where I stand, cows can graze areas that absolutely cannot be used to grow crops and cows turn things that we cannot eat into something that we can. So that seems a decent way to make food.
Most cattle are fed crops? You mean right before slaughter right? You don't think that a cow is being fed grain for its entire life before going to butcher do you?
And cows are fed all sorts of garbage. Its all done because of money. Give dairy cows a few pounds of expired candy and the lactose in their milk for the day increases making it sweeter. Give meat cattle a majority grain diet for the last few months of their lives and there will be more fat in their meat, it also gives them stomach ulcers. Probably why they can't have a straight grain diet for more than a few months, as it would affect the health of the animal to the point that it would lower the weight of the animal before processing, costing somebody money.
That static 70% statistic looks bad, but like, once a crop is finished growing it starts to rot unless processed into something that has a shelf life.
So if I can grow a plot of feed corn, twice a year to supplementally feed to an animal that gets most of its food from just browsing grass and other greenery, that I won't turn into food for 1.5 to 2 years. That seems like a pretty efficient way of storing food calories. Additionally cattle/sheep/goats mow the grasslands down, transport seeds around the areas they graze, fertilize as they move, and their hooves disturb the soil to help dropped seeds make better soil contact. And chickens can lay eggs, increasing their usefulness as a source of food.
I mean, a can of corn on a shelf stops being useful until its turned back into calories, right.
I could argue that the 70% statistic means that the entire world's population is being fed from the other 30% of crops grown directly for human consumption. Which doesn't include the % of that 30% that gets trashed before being consumed.
And pastures' being "planted" usually just means seed being spread. Not really that big of a deal. Seed doesn't need to be spread after the grass is established.
I'm of the mind that the clearing of the Amazon for cattle is less driven by trying to feed people and more by capitalism.
Food storage is always going to inefficient if your goal is about maximizing energy economy throughout the system. If you're just trying to feed yourself and the people around you, the metric for a successful system is about getting calories into people so that they can at a minimum, survive.
I agree, killing animals is sad and unpleasant. Its disturbing when we have to put down an old sickly pet, its disturbing when a hawk kills a rabbit for food, and I find it really rough to kill an animal with my own hands. We can choose to wall ourselves off from nature and hope for the best or try to live within it as humanely as possible. But living within this system kinda means getting your hands dirty.
Boy this is a bullshit take that’s extremely ignorant of the actual logistical Differences between animal agriculture and crop agriculture. Why do you think that historically the food of the poorest peoples use very minimal meat and dairy? These are luxury products that when scaled up do incredible harm to the environment and require massive use of resources that could otherwise be used for humanity. Look into how much fucking water goes into beef and dairy dude. Yeah individual consumer choices aren’t activism I don’t think anyone’s deluding themselves about that but 1. The proletarian diet has historically been 90% plant based a la southern Italy, India, SE Asia, etc, and 2. If you actually give a shit about the impending climate apocalypse then the questions of what we eat and how it is produced are of the utmost importance to consider. If calling it a bourgeoisie affectation makes you feel better about Not making a relatively easy lifestyle choice that’s better for you and everyone around you then go ahead but educate yourself before acting like eating a vegan diet isn’t the single easiest, cheapest, and most effective ways to reduce your individual carbon footprint. And don’t fucking act like it’s either or, all us vegans are perfectly capable of political organizing AND trying to convince people to go vegan simultaneously, i do one or the other every fucking day. Yeah the problem is capitalism we all fucking agree but just because we’re swimming in bullshit personal responsibility narratives that aren’t true like recycling or electric cars or whatever doesn’t mean you can’t actually take small steps in your personal life to build towards a better world for everyone. It’s not about changing capitalism we all know that the meat and dairy industry will get propped up. but I challenge you to imagine a world where we can continue to consume the resources necessary for everyone to consume meat and dairy And we aren’t continually careening towards a climate apocalypse. EATING MEAT AND DAIRY IN EXCESS HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN A BOURGEOISIE AFFECTATION. THIS IS BECAUSE RAISING LIVESTOCK IS MORE RESOURCE INTENSIVE THAN GROWING CROPS. CATTLE ARE A HUGE SOURCE OF METHANE WHICH IS A WAY MORE POTENT GREENHOUSE GAS THAN C02. IF WE DESTROY CAPITALISM THESE PROBLEMS DO NOT JUST GO AWAY. and lucky for us we have to simultaneously destroy capitalism and avert climate crisis so stop being a dickhead uninformed contrarian and giving yourself a pass for not taking a small modicum of responsibility for helping out with the latter problem by just learning how to cook rice and beans like a real fucking prole.
We actually do have so many vegans here, it's great. The overlap between leftists and vegans is huge.
It's also funny to see reasonable people that hold up the ideal of full communism or socialism lose composure to defend eating meat in this thread because that would be a true inconvenience to attempt.
That's why I hope sharing the doc can at least inform people, even those who argue in favor of it.
I think seeing this should be common core education.
Seconding the above post - thanks for biting the bullet and starting this conversation. Reactionary takes be damned. What no one ever seems to remember is that the vast majority of vegans started off making the same jokes/bad arguments against it before eventually realizing this change is a critical part of alleviating mass unnecessary suffering.
Hopefully we'll get a /c/vegan soon, so chapos sorting by all can see that life goes on without animal products and can join us in true leftist moral superiority :vegan-edge:
I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do but I think a trigger warning might be appreciated prior to watching the documentary. There were a few gut wrenching scenes in there that I would say are burned into my mind now and I consider myself someone with a high tolerance for shit like that.
Wow, there's a lot of power behind this statement. I'll remember this next time I recommend Dominion.
I hope so because even if you don't switch to veganism, it's fascinating.
The level to which we have stripped any compassion for these animals in trade for efficiency is astounding. And the level of step-by-step detail is gripping, if rough.
I hope you do consider adding a !veganism community. A lot of us would appreciate a shared space to discuss the activism and spreading of information aspect to the ideal, on top of recipe sharing and food pictures. Those things cannot be posted to !food and likely would receive similar hostility as throughout this thread.
This doc was what helped me commit to it.
Thanks
Or maybe the words of an admin? Your binary classification is hindering productive conversation
Looking at the responses to the original post, it seems like the Lemmy is pretty hostile to veganism. I wouldn't mind having a place to talk about it without having to constantly justify our existence.
@Beatnik is hostile to veganism, as apparent from his comments on this post.
A veganism community is just as much about activism as it is about posting recipes. It's about a community working to help each other.
Those things cannot be posted to !food.
hostility = wanting a reasoned discussion?
Good news for you, if you want to help each other there's a community just for that !mutual_aid@hexbear.net
No one is telling vegans not to be vegan, people just don't want people universalising their dietary choice on to everyone else.
Simplifying an ethical truth down to "dietary choice" is ridiculous. It's likening anti-slavery to "consumerist choice".
My eggs come from a flock of 9 lovely sapphire gem chickens who have a peculiar affinity for zucchini.
I love vegan struggle sessions they're my personal guilty pleasure.
Eating chicken meat is less cruel than eating eggs.
At least the meat only requires the chicken to die once after living a life of eating a lot, "ethically raised".
Egg hens require a life of suffering as their bodies give out from producing a full egg every single day, then they're killed just like the meat chicken.
"I visit my slaves daily, they are very happy to see me. They're not suffering."
I mean I'm not sure how you plan to convince me that you know more about the state of chickens that I've interacted with and you haven't, but you're welcome to keep throwing wild analogies at me in the hope I found one applicable and convincing.
For being intentionally obtuse to someone making a good point?
As defined on what, some conceptual chicken population?
The point they're making is that if you have egg-laying chickens, their male siblings, cousins, etc were murdered soon after hatching because they are useless for your purposes.
were murdered soon after hatching
Likely by blender, as shown here in the doc: https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?t=1474
Sweet fucking Christ I was not expecting that
considered humane by the RSPCA
HOW??
I mean you can make that argument statistically for a hypothetical chicken, but knowing the granola type organic farm these ones came from I don't think that's applicable here.
Where did that farm get its chickens? Are they such big hippies that they called on Mother Nature to provide them slave-animals and so they appeared from the Earth?
No dude. They came from someone who murdered all the males.
Where did that farm get its chickens?
Eggs and other chickens.
Why are you being intentionally obtuse? Eggs and chickens do not appear from thin air. I don't care what farm you're talking about, trace the line of chickens back and you'll find a farm which killed all the males.
Am I supposed to stop eating eggs from actual chickens which I know are having a ball because your unjustified certainty of what has hypothetically happened to conceptual chickens?
Your refusal to consider events you haven't personally witnessed does not mean they did not happen.
And your attempting to map from the general to a specific is a textbook example of the existential fallacy.
I guess there really are issues on both sides.
So explain to me how your magic hippie farm got its magic eggs. I didn't tell you where the eggs came from until you refused to respond. Just answer the question. If there was never a farm which murdered all the male chickens in the process, where did these eggs come from? How did they come to be?
I already told you, they came from chickens. You do realize what eggs are right?
Eggs are 50% male. Those male chickens are killed after hatching.
You are being intentionally difficult because you know you cannot make an argument for this.
Eggs are 50% male.
As defined on what? If I have three fertilized eggs, they aren't 50% male.
You are being intentionally difficult because you know you cannot make an argument for this.
Buddy I can make an argument for anything
Sorry, you're right. And where did all these poor people come from? Well, they came from poor people of course. That's just how it works. There was never anything else in play. History began exactly 1 generation ago (1 generation of every animal that is -- my parents were the first humans alive, while the parents of the chickens you're referring to were the first chickens alive). Thank you for your insight, you monumental fucking dumbass.
Sometimes poor people come from rich people actually. But I've never seen a chicken that didn't come from an egg.
Although at some point I suppose there was a chicken that came from a Guinea fowl egg.
But I'm not sure species is meaningfully defined on the individual level.
Hey now don't downvote this without bringing population genetics to the table.
Here's a fantastic video on why eating the eggs of backyard chickens is no better for the animals and still ethically wrong, because when an animal is seen as a resource, it is never a pet.
Chickens do not normally lay an egg daily, they only do it because we take the eggs they've laid. And that, for years on end, is hell on their bodies.
Which is a terrible thing to do to any animal you love.
Earthling Ed vid about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YFz99OT18k
If I start with the conclusion that backyard chickens are also bad (because veganism is ethical), then yes, I can get back to that conclusion.
I'd argue that "exploiting" "animal" and "ethical" have definitions contingent on one's intellectual and moral framework, and so it's a bit silly to assume that we can arrive at at universal, objective truth value for that moral claim.
Oh crap I hadn't realized that this is applicable to even positions I don't like what am I going to do now.
That'd problem for the argument if that were a conclusion to that argument.
Nope, it isn't. It's a good argument, you just don't want to bother to understand it. As exemplified by your introducing concepts that it doesn't even impinge on like "judging". I'm not a vegan, so being able to judge people isn't an important part of my framework.
I'm not interesting in "judging" a genocidal dictator from some objective moral standpoint, I'm interested in building a coalition to stop them , which I can do even in the absence of objective moral superiority on my part.
Keeping backyard chickens as pets means not eating their eggs. That's keeping them as a pet, not a resource.
Hens stop producing eggs if we don't take them, and they'll eat the eggs that don't hatch to get the nutrients back.
The myth of "chickens just make infinite eggs" is similar to the myth of "dairy cows are cows that just always make milk".
46 bears
242 comments
http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/kingofpopcorn1.gif
I've seen this and earthlings good documentaries. I like how this breaks it down by animal. I did decide to continue living as a blood mouth hope others decide to switch.
Damn, the video is seared into my mind. All I can think of anytime I eat meat is the months of suffering that goes into a few minutes of a meal for me. Not worth it.
Yeah I'm fucked I see the images before I eat it doesnt phase me, then again snuff doesnt really move me either I'm desensitized to images.
I grew up on a farm and saw slaughter first hand so it's been connected to meat for me my entire life.
I'm using my move to try again so third times the charm.
Good for yall trying to help others, I suppose if you can change one mind it's worth.
Yeah, glad you're here at least even if you're desensitized to the cruelty, rather than being some psychopath ALM chud.
Small steps along the way if you try again, I've never eaten pork so cutting beef was a good starting point for me.
Alternatives for meat are abundant now too if cravings arise. Even Burger King's selling Impossible Burgers, it's cool seeing plant-based options become so prevalent.
Yeah! I actually like beyond more, that and some of violife's products have helped diminish alot. My spouse had to stop eating all grains and legumes due to diabetes and trying to switch to vegan was too much then. Now that we have stopped with sugar we can add those back in and resume cutting down meat. Luckily we both find milk gross, as you said the alternatives are really amazing now compared to 15 years ago.
Curious if anyone knows of any permaculture based agricultural systems that include animals but dont use them?? Idk that's my goal is to establish a large farm but like ruminants, chickens and ducks their poop it's amazing for the plants.
Oatly is a fav of mine, I like it more than cow's milk, but probably not for a diabetic due to the natural sugar content.
Didn't know diabetics had issues with legumes, why is that? Just high carb into sugar?
Aquaculture does that with fish, keeping ducks as pets on a farm is pretty common for that too I think.
Oatly is godly, that company is going to be in every coffee shop in 3 years. More shelf-stable too, the expiration dates on it are like, several months from production.
Uses cheap and super environment friendly oats too.
I've been working to get into the practice of calling it "cow's milk" instead of "actual milk" too, that's very much a thing the dairy industry wants people to think and they are spending millions on lobbying against calling plant-milk "milk" in stores as a final death throw.
Milk is a fat-rich, tasty white liquid I use in my coffee, and oat milk is better at that than anything.
Also yes cum is boy milk
cant vegans like leave me alone fuck stop. I respect them for what they do, please stop evangelizing down my throat.
cant leftists like leave me alone fuck stop. I respect them for what they do, please stop evangelizing down my throat.
Is this one if those torture porn documentaries where they show gore that shocks you for a week and then you go back to eating animal products? Vegans should stop self-harming by watching shit like this because it's not even effective.
I would love it if vegans stopped ignoring that people become desensitized to violence after repeated exposure. Something something ethos pathos and logos.
Edit: I already know that chapos can't read, I don't need you to keep proving it to me.
Edit 2: me checking back this comment thread :doomer:
Nobody needs to watch thus stuff because it's both disgusting and useless. Like I said, people stop eating animal products for a short time and then go back. These types of documentaries make no real effort to convert people… just "isn't gore fucked up?"
Edit: I love that I wasn't corrected so I have to go with my assumption that it is torture porn lmao.
I'm a vegan in my late 30's, having started questioning my meat-consumption as a teen in the 90s and becoming vegan in the early 2000's in large part due to a similar doc Meet Your Meat. So no, people don't just go back to eating meat after watching this sort of thing as any kind of general rule of thumb. No more than former leftists go back to being libs or reactionaries because they watched a video about the torture people endure because of capitalism. That's a really weird claim for you to make actually.
Just as with leftism, there are a myriad of ways people arrive at veganism, including via being shown the kind of torture that meat consumption really does support and perpetuate. It was true for me and for a few others I've known. As for desensitization, sure... I'd imagine repeated and frequent exposure to these kinds of images does desensitize. But this isn't the kind of thing a person is supposed to watch over and over out of fascination or enjoyment, obviously. The initial shock and resulting realization about what a person's meat consumption is endorsing can be a powerful experience that can motivate a more empathetic and understanding outlook on something that can otherwise go unquestioned.
And go ahead and call it torture porn, but no, that's not accurate. "Porn" implies it's watched and gotten off to, or at least enjoyed. Anyone who enjoys seeing this kind of abject suffering and cruelty isn't likely to be swayed to become vegan by any means.
I've met vegans who went vegan for their anorexia lmao. I don't get what you mean.
Would you prefer it if I said "there are much more effective ways that don't involve watching torture porn"? How often do people turn vegan for the rest of their life after watching gore vs how many become convinced that the solution is "humane farming".
Excuse me for thinking that making people click on gore without putting a trigger warning is an incredibly shitty strategy. Not only for the poor effectiveness but for the disrespect it shows for your fellow comrades.
You thought the industry standard for meat production would not include slaughtering animals?
You're not good at arguing. And speaking to me like if I was an idiot won't kill less animals.
I kinda agree TBH. This stuff works on some but generally only if they’re already considering veganism. I’m a much bigger fan of trying to convince people around the health and environmental arguments for veganism. I went vegan for those reasons and I’m gonna stay vegan for the ethical reasons.
This stuff works on some
Then it's serving its intended purpose very well. Which is why it pains me to see so much concern-trolling in this thread about how these kinds of videos are bad or counterproductive as one tactic for getting people to reconsider animal consumption.
This stuff works on some but generally only if they’re already considering veganism
Ikr. It would be interesting to see how often the conclusion people come to is "we need to give the animals a good life and kill humanely" instead of "we need to tear down animal farming practices".
The doc that really changed my mind was the Cowspiracy because the environmental implications are actually pretty profound. The ethical stuff is hard to buy into until you buy into the premise that we never ever need to eat animal products.
Ethical reasons is the only reason that stands in the end tbh. People can stop having emotional reactions to gore, there are other diets that are good for the environment and when it comes to health people are very diverse. Ethics is also the hardest thing to argue lol.
I don't remember the particular video right now but "what qualities does a non-human animal lacks that if it was a human you would justify killing and eating them" was a very life changing conclusion to hear. But I can't say I remember the gore I was tricked into watching anymore.
There are animal-based diets that are better for the environment than veganism?
Someone who only eats meat they catch and doesn’t eat eggs or dairy is more ethical and environmentally friendly than your average lacto/ovo vegetarian I think that’s what gay is referring to. There are gradations and I try to give people credit for the little steps they take while also demonstrating that veganism a great way to live. Cmon vegan comrades let’s have some unity.
I was thinking from a dumpster diving angle but I guess your example works too.
Wait you called me gay I'm gonna piss myself laughing.
Yeah veganism is just way easier than both of those but I still would give credit to either of those hypothetical people for trying to live more ethically and environmentally friendly. Glad I tickled you comrade gay. o7
Ah yes, classic alternative to going vegan, eating meat out of a dumpster.
The only form of ethical animal consumption and very accessible to all.
I didn't say meat, did I. You'd be surprised the state the food big chain supermarket throw out is in. In huge amounts.
But you're being so dishonest that tbh I know you don't care about that. Tell me, when did I say this?
** very accessible to all.**
How long have you been vegan?
I have actually dumpster dived a lot, it's awesome.
Back before I was vegan finding store candy and fresh food recently thrown out was great.
But to imply "dumpster diving" is some diet feasibly alternative to hunting for meat or veganism is nonsense.
Dumpsters are locked, often compactors, only plentiful in urban areas, and hugely variable, as well as require people to dig around in trash.
Offering that up as the "more environmentally conscious diet" over plant-based is ridiculous when it can't sustain a population to subsist on trash and isn't a viable option for people.
What's your deal, lmao. All you've done is make up shit about what I've said. I have no interest in picking the "most environmentally friendly diet" for an entire population, I just said that environmentally conscious people have other options that don't have a big impact on the environment.
But no, please act like I said that you can live off a carnivore diet or whatever.
Animal based implies that the majority of your diet is animal products. I never said animal based, you're being dishonest.
Oh, yeah, I guess it could be taken that way. I was just reaching for a term that was opposite of plant-based.
Guess I should have opted for "omnivore".
So are there omnivore diets that are better for the environment than plant-based?
Me: there are other diets that are good for the environment
You: which?
Other user: well, hunting in this specific way
Me: lol what first came to my mind was dumpster diving
You: which diets?
Me: dumpster diving, ig
You: yeah dumpster diving is a real thing and it has a small impact.
Me: ikr
You: "So are there omnivore diets that are better for the environment than plant-based?"
Is this a bit? Are you doing this on purpose??
