Like, is the reason for this just the fact that they're Russian? If so, what exactly does this accomplish? Is it just
It accomplishes people moving out of Linux to open and anti-imperialist software.
Does anyone know of alternatives or if the people going out, and others, intend to fork it?
Linux is used/developed by NATO, DoD, intel/Israel, Mossad, Google and other imperialist entities. There's most likely NSA/CIA/Mossad backdoors in the kernel. They're probably not collecting data from every Linux user, but I am sure that if they wanted to, they could gain access to a Linux/android box.
This is why you shouldn't do anything "sensitiv" on your computer. Use full disk encryption if you can, otherwise Tails booted off of a USB stick on public wifi.
What the imperialist entities have put in linux until now, or the vulnerabilities they found but didn't disclose to anyone, isn't even as much of a problem as what they will likely do now that they are removing the people most likely to be against allowing linux to be used against its users.
Net/Free/OpenBSD are alternatives to Linux if that's what you mean
I haven't checked out the state of HURD in a while but possibly that as well
I haven’t checked out the state of HURD in a while but possibly that as well
A couple months ago they released an aarch64 port of GNU Hurd and there seem to be at least a couple people working on it.
But it's fine that Red Hat/IBM is literally a US defense contractor that knowingly participates in crimes against humanity.
Plus the other thousand examples of how Linux, or any western tech, are the product of empire.
Linus comment on the subject is the corn in the shit:
"Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about.
It's entirely clear why the change was done, it's not getting reverted, and using multiple random anonymous accounts to try to "grass root" it by Russian troll factories isn't going to change anything.
And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren't troll farm accounts - the "various compliance requirements" are not just a US thing.
If you haven't heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day. And by "news", I don't mean Russian state-sponsored spam.
As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be supporting Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too."
Linus Torvalds Comments On The Russian Linux Maintainers Being Delisted
What was the big crime of this maintainers? Being from Russia.
Meanwhile, Torvalds and the Linux Foundation are madly boot-licking and cock-sucking the Mossad and the IDF.
From the comments:
Linus reports to IBM/RedHat and their requirements are now Linux/Linus requirements. As a result today we can officially stop calling the Linux kernel "open".
And a large part of the open stack as well, including g-libraries, gnome, wayland and everything hosted on freedesktop.org.*EDIT: * No relation at all.
And a large part of the open stack as well, including g-libraries, gnome, wayland and everything hosted on freedesktop.org.
This is just phoronix commenters trying to extend the anger to their favorite hate targets.
True, freedesktop.org has no direct affiliation with the Linux Foundation.
the "russian troll" statement makes it clear that this guy is deep in nafo stuff
the “various compliance requirements” are not just a US thing.
True, is a NATO thing.
It's obvious that Linux is now under RedHat control, who themselves are controlled by the US govt. BSD's popularity is about to go up. I hope these Russian kernel maintainers switch to BSD, god knows BSD needs the drivers.
I don't like the BSD license very much, I am more in hope that GNU Hurd finally kicks off, but I doubt any of the two happens.
I don’t like the BSD license very much
Why? Linux kernel is GPL, doesn't protect it from stuff like this. At least you can be certain that Theo de Raadt isn't going to kick people who contribute to BSD off the project based on their location. Contributors to tech projects should be chosen on merit, not ethnicity or citizenship (or any other characteristic that is irrelevant to the project).
I know nothing about Theo de Raadt, what makes you say that he wouldn't? Never used a BSD, but not particular appealing that it's not GPL.
what makes you say that he wouldn’t?
Because he seems like a no-bullshit kind of guy when it comes to the OS he started. I don't see him kicking Russians off the OpenBSD project just because that is the politically expedient. OpenBSD always chooses to do what is better for security than what is popular. This means they focus on the technical aspects, and don't care about the political ramifications of their decisions.
He also went to a ruBSD conference in 2014. http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20140115054839
This is his personal website: https://theos.com/deraadt/
OpenBSD doesn't have a Code of Conduct either, because the project is run by "old school" techies/computer nerds who don't need a document to tell them racism or homophobia is bad and that people who work on a project together shouldn't insult one another based on characteristics that have nothing to do with the person's ability to code. So if Theo/OpenBSD didn't follow the latest CoC fad, it's unlikely they will go for the Russia hate fad.
For comparison, this is the Linux Foundation's Code of Conduct:
- Never harass or bully anyone verbally, physically or sexually.
- Never discriminate on the basis of personal characteristics or group membership.
They should have added a caveat for Russians. Further proof that CoC is about control over others. It's obvious that leaders of projects don't need to abide by the CoC.
https://hexbear.net/comment/5541326
I learned Hyperbola is moving to its BSD derivative kernel, HyperBK, on this thread, and it will be GPL.
Linus is a very intelligent person in the field he has talent. Outside of it, especially if it gets combine with his attitude, he as quite a clown.
What was the big crime of this maintainers?
Exactly, and even if he booted them from the maintainers list, why does he revert the code changes as well? ON WHAT BASIS!?
LINUS YOU FUCK
FUCK
It's entirely clear why the change was done
No, like please explain it!!!! WTF
One sane voice amongst the madness:
I'm pretty sure everyone from Israel is still allowed. Double moral of the west, once again.
I'm worried. Israel has a history of compromising public goods to be used as weapons of war yet they are not banned. Let us hope that other nations of merit (such as China) can audit the code committed to the kernel for their own goods and for ours.
McCarthy would be proud to see his legacy alive and well.
I can't say I am surprised, but a bit disappointed.
it always gives me pause to see well known kernel maintainers take such seemingly knee jerk reactions.
when a someone like a script kiddie does it, it doesn't matter; but I wonder when a kernel maintainer does it and i think i'm afraid to learn that the impetus and the thought process for both are the same.
Something i have learned in life, much to my own dismay, is that a lot of people that are very smart, and very good at specific things are really insanely reactionary. I think it comes from them spending so much time on that one thing that they just kind of dont even put any brain power towards politics or the state of the world and just catch some CNN here and there and go ok ya thats 100% true time to get back to arguing about boot loaders or whatever.
Like i bet the people who made this decision are rn thinking to themselves "Wait im confused the news said Russia was bad and my close circle of lib friends thought this was a good idea why is everyone mad?"
This has been 100% my experience as well. Most of the really good coders I've met are the types that also do it as a hobby outside work and also are reactionary/turbolib empire bootlickers. Literally regurgitating MSM slop and thinking they understand societal problems because they've read an op-ed in Bloomberg about why we need AI to fix the economy rather or something like that.
I think it comes from them spending so much time on that one thing that they just kind of dont even put any brain power towards politics or the state of the world
I'd also add to that the fact that this one thing they focus on has often been put on a pedestal (like coding for instance), which gets to many of them and makes them overestimate their abilities in other areas ("society says coders are smart, I'm a coder, I make good money, maybe I really am better than others, even at other things too" - an attitude I've encountered quite a few times).
100% agreed. Most software engineers are awful in this respect.
I've heard one fun thing is being a software engineer with multiple jobs at the same time, barely doing any work, and mostly just studying political theory and using the extra funds to fund local projects organized by their local communist party. A ... um ... friend of mine does something like that.
Interesting. I need to learn more about this from this friend of yours, for academic reasons
So you have to maintain separate resumes once you split into two or more simultaneous roles. You probably want to do this once you've reached software engineer or senior software engineer level and are feeling very comfortable.
Sometimes you'll have two meetings at the same time which can be kind of a pain. A 3.5mm audio mixer can enable you to mix the audio outputs from two or more computers so you can listen to both at the same time. As software engineer, you probably only have to talk occasionally.
This can probably apply to other jobs where you can easily exaggerate the amount of time tasks are taking. Most people in the software engineering industry seem to have no idea how long a given task should take.
I heard this can be risky with two jobs in the same industry due to limits of one account per person. This was from a tiktok video though so I don't have any other details.
Unless you luck out, it would probably be difficult to accomplish this with one or more of the jobs being FAANG employers, but I'd be rooting for anyone who tried.
Any other particular questions?
I admit I didn't expect you to go into the specifics of it but this is some next level shit that never crossed my mind!
Tbh I'd chicken out trying to do that now, but I've definitely been in a few jobs where it felt like I could get away with it. Makes me miss even more the days when you could easily work fully remotely. Maybe one day...
Ah yeah, they definitely have to be remote roles for it to be feasible. Good luck to you!
Programmers, the senior ones who can court good money with relative ease at least, are gonna tend to be pretty well off, which I'm sure is part of it. For them, the concept of "skills gud, pay gud too, something something meritocracy vibes" pretty much applies (even if the reasons it works for them are probably not what they think) and afaik they don't even have to fight for it with unions much of the time because the demand is high enough and the number of people at their skill level low enough. Entry level seems to be a much different story, having become saturated with all the bootcamp code stuff and "learn to code" rhetoric and such. But like, there's stuff where it runs on some old programming language that virtually nobody learns or actively uses anymore, so knowing it could give you a lot of leverage.
The moment these types of people were faced with hardship in employment and wages, I'm confident many of them would start questioning a lot of things they never thought much about before. But as long as they are a relatively comfy class in high demand, much of the class struggle can fly under the radar for them and through that, much of the rhetoric that might persuade them to think about imperialism as well.
One good thing about the last 3 years is that it has made me stop putting people on a pedestal and imagining them as more "advanced".
At the end of the day we're all just slophogs
Yeah, we need to stop doing that. I'm so sick of coders that act like they're big brain geniuses because society put their profession on a pedestal for the last decade or so
when a someone like a script kiddie does it, it doesn't matter; but I wonder when a kernel maintainer does it
Torvalds is a Finn. Finns are on a perpetual "pretending not to be a Nazi but actually being the reborn spirit of Goebells" mode, so it was a matter of time
This is because of western sanctions. Chinese contributors are much more numerous and more important than any Russians ever were; and they're also not a sanctioned country, so I highly doubt it
EDIT: As an Iranian, however, there is not much time left before us Iranians in the FOSS world are going to be banned from everywhere, although some measure against us has already been taken (Microsoft banned the shit out of Iranians when they took over GitHub)
For example, one of the most widely used libraries in the world is written by an Iranian who works (worked?) at Google by the name of Behdad Espahbod (HarfBuzz glyph processor library)
This is because of western sanctions. Chinese contributors are much more numerous and more important than any Russians ever were; and they’re also not a sanctioned country, so I highly doubt it
Uh they are sanctioned with more being added literally every year and once the US kicks off the planned war and decoupling against them in the next 4-5 years they're going to throw down a wall of sanctions just like the one they threw on Russia and I bet you that Linus will cite legal once again in an opaque decision to remove them while crying about how evil the Chinese government is for oppression of Uyghurs, for reclaiming Taiwan after it declared independence at American urging and offered to host American nukes, etc, etc.
Oh they'll let some back in, after they've signed a pledge that they are not associated with the Chinese military in any way (working for a company that supplies systems that are used by another company in a product that sells to the military counts), that they denounce their government and the communist party, that they are not Uyghurs or in Xin'jiang or associated with companies in Xin'jiang (as all enlightened westerners know all Uyghurs that were not killed in the totally real genocide are slaves so it's not acceptable to use their work) and so on and so forth. Which will mean a shocking amount of their devs will be out and Linus will shrug and claim they made a choice to not take the simple step of siding with the west against their own people and therefore got what they got.
They of course hope to use such sanctions to force companies to gut-punch and weaken the Chinese military and state but having them choose to decouple from the west instead is also perfectly acceptable.
The west is pulling all its might to it, while it still has strength to do so. It will cut out Chinese developers but that doesn't matter. If Linux desktop crashes and burns no matter because they only really need it for servers and Red Hat and other alphabet agency adjacent companies will keep those distros humming along on approved Intel/AMD/western hardware configurations.
They aim to then cut out China from Linux and hope the whole thing collapses and cannot be used for their own hardware meaning they'll have to support a hard-forked kernel which many western planners doubtless think they won't be able to do or it will at least hinder them badly for some time and more important draw a strong digital divide, a digital iron curtain between western Linux and users thereof and Chinese/Russian Linux and users thereof.
The planners of these things don't care about some minor consequences, they're in a life or death struggle, winner takes all, west comes out on top for another century+ of dominance and exploitation with western capital at the helm and white supremacy triumphing OR the multi-polar world emerges victorious and western hegemony and power collapses and with it their DoTB and their entire way of life and privilege.
Reshoring includes reshoring software jobs and if it's important their thinking is someone will get paid to do it by some company, if it's not paid for it clearly wasn't important. This could cause problems for western corporations but it would likely be a down the road thing and most likely Valve or others would desperately try and keep Linux afloat just to have an alternative to Microsoft so they're not destroyed by Windows locking down sales and apps via Windows store sales.
As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I’m Finnish. Did you think I’d be supporting Russian aggression? Apparently it’s not just lack of real news, it’s lack of history knowledge too."
does this mean he is proud that they sided with nazi germany?
...Fuck...
Learning BSD jumped to high priority on my to do list. I get the feeling that as a tech savvy comrade, my life right now is going to be focusing on developing tech skills for the sole purpose of fighting against the Empire, along with helping PSL more. Anti-imperialist tech is a must, and any ties to the Empire cannot be trusted.
I'm probably going to attempt to run Free/OpenBSD and virtualize Linux like I do with Windows now. Maybe more work will be done on BSD and Gentoo BSD projects will be resurrected and supported.
I have to respond to what @rostselmasch@lemmygrad.ml wrote in Linux for Leftists since I'm banned from there for not bending the knee to liberals. Funny how I got proven right about the CoC, but anyway...
Well, it is actually kind of “understandable” if you look at this here.
While the legal requirements can be understandable, what can't be is that it took them 2+ years to act on it (sanctions were in place for a long time).
And what's not understandable is their bullshit requirements:
The documentation Greg is looking for (which a group of Lawyers at the LF will verify) is that someone in the removed list doesn't actually work for an OFAC SDN sanctioned entity.
Think about it. They're expecting people to prove they DON'T work for a company. How do you prove something like that? Send them a picture of an empty desk and point to the lack of employment contract? It's a bullshit requirement that nobody can meet, thus ensuring Russians stay banned.
I have to respond to what @rostselmasch@lemmygrad.ml wrote in Linux for Leftists since I’m banned from there for not bending the knee to liberals. Funny how I got proven right about the CoC, but anyway…
I dont quite understand, but I guess it has nothing to do with my content? Like, I dont remember you and I hope I had nothing done to get you banned from there.
While the legal requirements can be understandable, what can’t be is that it took them 2+ years to act on it (sanctions were in place for a long time).
I know what you mean. With understandable I only mean, that according to Linus there are following what their lawyers are saying. And they also seem to be very quite about it, like the cant speak about it (something like NDA or they have to be carefull). They are still vague and the transparency is bad. Are they pressured or how much is the US government involved in all of this.
Think about it. They’re expecting people to prove they DON’T work for a company. How do you prove something like that? Send them a picture of an empty desk and point to the lack of employment contract? It’s a bullshit requirement that nobody can meet, thus ensuring Russians stay banned.
I really really dont actually know. My guess is that they probably have to provide documents about their place of work. This are personal information and nobody would be happy about this.
My biggest problem is, that everything is vague and still not clear. Its fishy, but there is probably more behind of it and they are hiding it. Either on purpose or, what I think is more possible, because they are somehow not allowed or strongly advised to not say anything.
I guess it has nothing to do with my content?
Oh yeah! Nothing to do with you, I was just explaining why I am responding in this thread, rather than where you wrote your post.
With understandable I only mean, that according to Linus there are following what their lawyers are saying.
Oh I know, and I agreed with you. The legal requirements are understandable, there's many legal requirements for all sorts of things. I was just adding on that if it were about the legal requirements, then they would have done it once those requirements came into force.
My biggest problem is, that everything is vague and still not clear. Its fishy, but there is probably more behind of it and they are hiding it.
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." - Maya Angelou
Torvalds came out and said he hates Russians, I think we should believe him.
Oh yeah! Nothing to do with you, I was just explaining why I am responding in this thread, rather than where you wrote your post.
Ah OK, sometimes my english understanding skills suffer :)
I was just adding on that if it were about the legal requirements, then they would have done it once those requirements came into force.
I understand now. It makes a lot of sense, didnt thought about that. The war is going for two years now, but they decided to do it right now. Should they have pressure from the US government, than it is a bad sign for the open source community. It shows clearly, that the decision making of important projects like the Linux Kernel, can get heavily influenced by them. Not good and choosing the USA as a location is a bad decision and should be avoided in the future.
Torvalds came out and said he hates Russians, I think we should believe him.
I totaly believe him. I guess you can troll him by sending a simple mail like "hello Linus how are you?" with a russian TLD and he will believe it is a top-tier professional russian actor. Tbh he formulated all this in a way like his Finnish ancestry is the reason for this. Some people should not talk or make decisions about things about they don't know anything.
