Kibbutzim have existed in Palestine since long before the Israeli state. And many kibbutzim are anti-Zionism and very much anti-authority. Don't let yourself fall into the Israel = Jews trap, comrade.
I see your edit there Ms. Ape. You didn't get away with it. Pretty sure that already disproves your argument. Zionism is the settler colonial ideology and the Kibbutz movement was a part of it.
And many kibbutz are anti-Zionism
[citations needed] Also we're talking about the movement and a few counter examples don't prove much. Also plural is kibbutzim.
The Kibbutz settlements existed nearly four decades prior to the state of Israel
And Theodor Herzl died in 1904. What's your point? The Zionist project is a multi decade colonial effort. It doesn't just pop up with the Declaration of Establishment. The first Zionist Congress was in 1897. Left-Zionism is an oxymoron and there's no way around it.
How can you justify anarchist cells in a nationalist project? That's 🤡
How can you justify anarchist cells in a nationalist project?
Unless I'm confused, I don't see how one could not justify anarchist cells in a nationalist project. Are we also supposed to be against EZLN because they're an anarchist cell in a nationalist state?
The Zapatistas themselves reject the Anarchist characterization.
@Genghis_Kon Called Kibbutzim Left-Zionist anarchist cells. Zionism is a nationalist movement and it's my understanding that that is antithetical to anarchism. In contrast to the EZLN kibbutzim do not struggle against the Zionist state but are well established and interwoven into a Zionist society.
Kibbutzim today are glorified gated communities. I don't know why you think they are relevant in any way.
Edit: Furthermore you'll have a tough time convincing an Arab like me to take the claim seriously that a group of Europeans who move to a british colony in the Arab world to set up their own society separate from the indigenous population is socialist, anarchist or leftist in anyway.
I think you're right, that the history of the Kibbutz movement is directly tied in with Zionism. I was misinformed (not a rare occurrence), so thank you. Deprogramming the Zionist propaganda is hard when you grew up surrounded by it.
I still think some Kibbutzim are on our side, and we should be willing to work with them. I know many people who have lived on Kibbutzim and they are all very much anti-Israel and anti-authority, and they know that communal living can work because they've lived it.
deleted by creator
Anarchism in my settler colonialism? Not the company I expected anarchists would like to advertise.
Kibbutzim have existed in Palestine since long before the Israeli state. And many kibbutzim are anti-Zionism and very much anti-authority. Don't let yourself fall into the Israel = Jews trap, comrade.
Edit: Kibbutzim
I see your edit there Ms. Ape. You didn't get away with it. Pretty sure that already disproves your argument. Zionism is the settler colonial ideology and the Kibbutz movement was a part of it.
[citations needed] Also we're talking about the movement and a few counter examples don't prove much. Also plural is kibbutzim.
deleted by creator
And Theodor Herzl died in 1904. What's your point? The Zionist project is a multi decade colonial effort. It doesn't just pop up with the Declaration of Establishment. The first Zionist Congress was in 1897. Left-Zionism is an oxymoron and there's no way around it.
How can you justify anarchist cells in a nationalist project? That's 🤡
deleted by creator
My contention to that would be that there is no modern Kibbutz movement.
Their actions don't seem to support that thesis. If it were so I would expect them to be anti-zionist which they clearly are not.
Unless I'm confused, I don't see how one could not justify anarchist cells in a nationalist project. Are we also supposed to be against EZLN because they're an anarchist cell in a nationalist state?
The Zapatistas themselves reject the Anarchist characterization.
@Genghis_Kon Called Kibbutzim Left-Zionist anarchist cells. Zionism is a nationalist movement and it's my understanding that that is antithetical to anarchism. In contrast to the EZLN kibbutzim do not struggle against the Zionist state but are well established and interwoven into a Zionist society.
deleted by creator
Kibbutzim today are glorified gated communities. I don't know why you think they are relevant in any way.
Edit: Furthermore you'll have a tough time convincing an Arab like me to take the claim seriously that a group of Europeans who move to a british colony in the Arab world to set up their own society separate from the indigenous population is socialist, anarchist or leftist in anyway.
I think you're right, that the history of the Kibbutz movement is directly tied in with Zionism. I was misinformed (not a rare occurrence), so thank you. Deprogramming the Zionist propaganda is hard when you grew up surrounded by it.
I still think some Kibbutzim are on our side, and we should be willing to work with them. I know many people who have lived on Kibbutzim and they are all very much anti-Israel and anti-authority, and they know that communal living can work because they've lived it.