Why can you choose a deer or fae option, but not a cat option? In isolation, removing the cat option would be fine. But if you are adding two new options for deer and fae, it seems like the cat option should still be allowed.
Furthermore, I don't think a person being unwilling to use deer- or fairy-based pronouns is transphobic. I don't think these two issues should be lumped in with each other. I think we can build a mass, working-class movement that respects gender. I am much more skeptical about building a mass, working-class movement that respects fairy-based or deer-based pronouns and identities. I support these individuals living their lives and expressing themselves however they want, but I don't think there should be a duty on anyone else to observe these non-gender prononun categories, and I don't think not wanting to makes you transphobic.
If we are banning people for not observing race-based pronouns, when the race is fairy or deer, I think we've lost the plot. That is not transphobia (or maybe racism?) nor TERFy nor reactiony nor borderline-stupidpol. It's just being insufficiently weird. I am irony poisoned enough to go along with just about anything, but as I understand this isn't a bit and people have sincerely-held beliefs about being faeries or deer. I think that's too far removed from a materialist perspective to issue a statement like "If you don't accept the reality of deer and fairy people, then you are not a leftist. It's that fucking easy." Yet we have these identities lumped in with gender for some reason. I think people can be skeptical of expanding the category of gender to include deer and fairies without being transphobes or bigots.
(she/her) she ate her food
(they/them) they eat their food
(xe/xyr) xe ate xyr food
(deer/doe) deer ate doe food
(cat/girl) cat ate girl food
I think using nouns as pronouns doesn’t really work very well. xe/xyr may be unfamiliar to most English speakers but it’s new words that can’t be confused with existing nouns and are easy to get used to.
Doe/deer is a bit stranger, can be confused with nouns, but I imagine I could get used to it, although would confuse people not aware of it a lot more.
Cat/girl doesn’t work at all, they are more common nouns then doe and deer, and don’t share any similarity that make them a pair.
Doe/deer are a user’s preferred pronouns, whereas cat/girl was a joke.
I am not "policing" pronouns, I am just saying that other people should not be expected to use pronouns expressing otherkin identities or whatever other kinds of identities. Gender identity, yes that is a reasonable expectation. The other things, I don't think so.
You're doing that thing where you make up an argument and attack it. Stop it. Xenopronouns are a gender abolitionist thing. Don't talk about shit you know nothing about.
yeah but if we aren't talking about gender it's something completely different. like if a person actually thought they were a fairy, it's not the same thing as what a trans person goes through. they aren't choosing these pronouns it's what they are. a fairy is a magical fantasy being
You are conflating pronouns with gender when especially the nounself neopronouns are being employed beyond gender, to indicate other kinds of identities than gender identities. If you have an Otherkin identity, that is cool, maybe you have a pronoun for it -- but what does it have to with trans and nonbinary? Gender is 100% valid and everyone should be expected to respect gender identity. But if we are talking about something else, like Otherkin identity, I think it's reasonable if not everyone chooses to entertain that.
I would think that whatever gender may mean, it certainly doesn't include other being another species or a fantasy creature. There is some collective understanding of gender that people have: masculine, femininine, and people who feel neither masculine nor feminine. But masuline and feminine are still the two poles, so whatever meaning gender could have would have least have to be at least on the same plane of meaning. The two poles are not dragon and robot. (I am not just being a smartass, there are dragon and robot nounself pronouns listed on the nonbinary wiki.)
I didn't say it was a line, I said it was a plane. I agree that genders have many different expressions. But it's not a total free-for-all, it's not "anything you can imagine, you can say it's a gender, and if other people fail to respect it, they are being transphobic."
You cannot compel people to engage with wildly fantastical notions just because you want to shoehorn it into the form of a "gender". This is dangerously approaching the one joke territory, where "attack helicopter" must be a valid gender since there are no limits anyone may define for another person without being transphobic. If I reject "attack helicopter" could be a valid nonbinary gender for someone, then I am the one being transphobic. You have gender turned on its head to justify coercing people to identify you as some kind of fairy via the opprobrium of transphobia.
Why can you choose a deer or fae option, but not a cat option? In isolation, removing the cat option would be fine. But if you are adding two new options for deer and fae, it seems like the cat option should still be allowed.
Furthermore, I don't think a person being unwilling to use deer- or fairy-based pronouns is transphobic. I don't think these two issues should be lumped in with each other. I think we can build a mass, working-class movement that respects gender. I am much more skeptical about building a mass, working-class movement that respects fairy-based or deer-based pronouns and identities. I support these individuals living their lives and expressing themselves however they want, but I don't think there should be a duty on anyone else to observe these non-gender prononun categories, and I don't think not wanting to makes you transphobic.
If we are banning people for not observing race-based pronouns, when the race is fairy or deer, I think we've lost the plot. That is not transphobia (or maybe racism?) nor TERFy nor reactiony nor borderline-stupidpol. It's just being insufficiently weird. I am irony poisoned enough to go along with just about anything, but as I understand this isn't a bit and people have sincerely-held beliefs about being faeries or deer. I think that's too far removed from a materialist perspective to issue a statement like "If you don't accept the reality of deer and fairy people, then you are not a leftist. It's that fucking easy." Yet we have these identities lumped in with gender for some reason. I think people can be skeptical of expanding the category of gender to include deer and fairies without being transphobes or bigots.
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I think using nouns as pronouns doesn’t really work very well. xe/xyr may be unfamiliar to most English speakers but it’s new words that can’t be confused with existing nouns and are easy to get used to.
Doe/deer is a bit stranger, can be confused with nouns, but I imagine I could get used to it, although would confuse people not aware of it a lot more.
Cat/girl doesn’t work at all, they are more common nouns then doe and deer, and don’t share any similarity that make them a pair.
Doe/deer are a user’s preferred pronouns, whereas cat/girl was a joke.
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I am not "policing" pronouns, I am just saying that other people should not be expected to use pronouns expressing otherkin identities or whatever other kinds of identities. Gender identity, yes that is a reasonable expectation. The other things, I don't think so.
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are you saying fairy is a gender? it's something that's completely separate, no?
You're doing that thing where you make up an argument and attack it. Stop it. Xenopronouns are a gender abolitionist thing. Don't talk about shit you know nothing about.
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yeah but if we aren't talking about gender it's something completely different. like if a person actually thought they were a fairy, it's not the same thing as what a trans person goes through. they aren't choosing these pronouns it's what they are. a fairy is a magical fantasy being
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yes i know that. did you know if i asked 100 people what a fairy was 99 would tell me it's a magical fantasy being? that's how language works
You are conflating pronouns with gender when especially the nounself neopronouns are being employed beyond gender, to indicate other kinds of identities than gender identities. If you have an Otherkin identity, that is cool, maybe you have a pronoun for it -- but what does it have to with trans and nonbinary? Gender is 100% valid and everyone should be expected to respect gender identity. But if we are talking about something else, like Otherkin identity, I think it's reasonable if not everyone chooses to entertain that.
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I would think that whatever gender may mean, it certainly doesn't include other being another species or a fantasy creature. There is some collective understanding of gender that people have: masculine, femininine, and people who feel neither masculine nor feminine. But masuline and feminine are still the two poles, so whatever meaning gender could have would have least have to be at least on the same plane of meaning. The two poles are not dragon and robot. (I am not just being a smartass, there are dragon and robot nounself pronouns listed on the nonbinary wiki.)
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I didn't say it was a line, I said it was a plane. I agree that genders have many different expressions. But it's not a total free-for-all, it's not "anything you can imagine, you can say it's a gender, and if other people fail to respect it, they are being transphobic."
You cannot compel people to engage with wildly fantastical notions just because you want to shoehorn it into the form of a "gender". This is dangerously approaching the one joke territory, where "attack helicopter" must be a valid gender since there are no limits anyone may define for another person without being transphobic. If I reject "attack helicopter" could be a valid nonbinary gender for someone, then I am the one being transphobic. You have gender turned on its head to justify coercing people to identify you as some kind of fairy via the opprobrium of transphobia.
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