Ugh these people suck so bad. On average, western leftists are worse than useless. Some bullet points are kinda interesting, even if annoying.
Ugh these people suck so bad. On average, western leftists are worse than useless. Some bullet points are kinda interesting, even if annoying.
I have a feeling that maga is gonna love that text when defending trump. They aren’t defending the authoritarian, they’re just celebrating his accomplishments!
No authority is the best authority.
baby-brained
I love how you all swarm, like a bee hive.
Do you take any negative reception to your comments as proof of whatever point you are trying to make? If you have a criticism to make in a public forum, shouldn't you reasonably expect a response that might likewise be critical?
Well, if I walk into a room full of maga and point out that they are behaving like maga and they go off on me, should I take their negative reception seriously?
The article was spot on, and continues to be. I think it’s a little funny that more lemmy ‘communists’ don’t just own up to it.
I guess my view of communism is different. However, this is the internet after all. Everyone is kind of a dick.
Should the people you've gone out of your way to antagonize take you seriously if you actively refuse to even articulate a criticism (even when directly invited to multiple times) and just post vague smug shit?
And look, for all the whining about "dog-piling" and "swarming" that people make about our instance, you can have replies to your comments, or you can have downvotes where nobody expresses an actual criticism and nobody gains anything.
I can’t see downvotes, so, vote away!
We literally do not have downvotes, hence all the replies trying to get somebody to make an actual point.
How can people have this sort of smug self-confidence in their beliefs if they cannot articulate a single point even when directly invited to do so? Literally one of you just make a point and then give a "why". Preferably make the "why" better than "because I received any negative reception for my vague but obviously antagonistic comment."
The article has a bunch of bullets. Pick one. Spot on. My point is the article was right. I mean, just own it. Chasing people away from communism is pretty much all lemmy communists do lol.
And, what I meant is I use voyager as my client, and it allows me to hide the voting thing. So.. it’s just missing. I wouldn’t know if you had or did not have it. You mentioned it. 🤷♂️
Multiple comments have gone through bulletin points and explained why they’re wrong. If you can’t engage with specific criticism then don’t defend the article?
And if you say seriously engaging with criticism will get you a ton of dismissive replies, this is actually what willfully ignoring it will do, and has done.
You have no idea what communism is. I am 100% certain of that.
I do. I’m just not a tankie.
Explain to me what communism is.
Yeah because you're a moron
So what is it
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ARE YOU REDDIT INCARNATE?
You pick one! Jesus Christ it was your post in the first place that lead to this whole comment chain! You can't even pick your own goddamn bullet point? You have got to be fucking with me dawg!
Holy fuck seriously, what orgs are you a part of so I know not to have anything to fucking do with them, then you can talk about "chasing people away from communism."
Hell, try elaborating that point even. How do you think we are chasing people from communism? Are our shit-posts just too shitty?
Just stop shit-posting and dunking entirely and focus on promoting the positive parts of communities with equality in a more strategic way to effect measurable change.
Communism is grounded in compassion, in the idea of working toward a truly liberated society, not one that merely replaces the oppressors of yesterday with new oppressors today. And yet, when I look at many so-called leftists, I see them betraying that principle every day, more interested in ideological purity or geopolitical “victories” than in standing for justice. They might claim they’re against fascism, but when they excuse brutality and silence in the name of their ideology, I see little difference between them and the right-wing authoritarians they claim to despise.
Maybe I’m just a soft dick.
It is the communist movements that you decry as 'replacing oppressors of yesterday with the oppressors of today' that have managed to massively improve people's lives. They are the ones that fought against colonialism and capitalism and achieved some success. Not the people who whine about how bad we are and then just side with the colonial metropoles that exterminate and enslave the rest of the world.
The sort of actions and policies that we support have been proven to work for the liberation of humanity. You have been proven to work for the world's enslavement.
Well, we are going to have to disagree a bit. I don’t accept any oppressor as a step forward.
This is idealistic liberal bullshit.
Strange that a self-proclaimed anarchist would be so in love with the idea of an oppressor.
I want to oppress you so bad actually, when the Dictatorship of The Queer is a reality I will personally find you so I can transify you
hell yeah call me authoritarian, red fash and all the rest of the meaningless buzzwords, you're still going to put on the cat ears and the thigh highs
Im actually kinda into thigh highs, I don’t have the cat ears though but I bet I would look cute. And since I’m gay already, it’s only a matter of time.
let me guess, you're white?
Mixed.
Damn, almost had you clocked as a Cis White Gay. You're definitely acting like one, anyway have a nice day vagueposting about bad shit the most trans-friendly space on the internet is up to and is bad actually.
Sorry. I’m just more peace and love than dictatorship. 🤷♂️
'Peace and love' is when you claim that the anti-colonjal liberation movements of Asia, Africa, etc. were all oppressive and shouldn't have succeeded, and when you don't suggest any viable alternatives.
WHICH ONE? YOU ARE SAYING YOU'RE AGAINST DICTATORSHIP AND YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE FOR IT SO NAME THE DICTATORSHIP YOU THINK USERS SUPPORT HERE YOU ABSOLUTE CHAMPION OF A MORON
the fuck did I say that? fuck off.
you know which part you're just being willfully ignorant at this point with every single reply I'm done with you.
You literally advocate for colonialism. You literally want to oppress most of the world under your authority.
Based on… what?
You literally decry communist movements that were successful in their struggles for liberation from your colonialism (this includes the USSR, by the way) as simply switching the oppressor.
You are either extremely ignorant, or are just outright malicious.
Moving forward, we don’t need oppressors. It’s possible to do it as a community. We can all get along.
HAHAHA.
What is this nonsense? Do you suggest the people under your colonial bondage just get along with their oppressors? Or that workers hold hands with the capitalists?
What do you suggest people of Vietnam should have done? Korea? Cuba? Laos? China?
Clearly the governments who control people need to be removed. I thought that was obvious, but… I guess not. I don’t think they need to be replaced with another oppressive government. I think it should be given to the people. You keep telling me what I think… and you keep getting it wrong.
SO DO WE! That's why we advocate for Democracy
You might, but that’s not the vibe I’m getting from the above comments advocating for an oppressive government. I really don’t get the “tell them what they think” tactic. It just makes them look intolerant and illiterate.
You are literally saying that the governments that fought against colonialism were/are oppressive, and then you go 'I don't actually think that!'
You are also yet to explain what the victims of your colonialism should have done.
By the way, this includes Nazi German settler-colonial genocide that targeted, among others, a group I belong to. Please, tell me how much you would love for my family to be enslaved and worked to death, infant.
✌️
Do you not know what a "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" actually means? Do you think it just means "A dictator is in charge, but the kind we like?"
NOBODY HAS ADVOCATED FOR AN OPPRESSIVE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN NO POSTIONS PRESENTED AT ALL YOU HAVE ADVOCATED FOR NOTHING SO HOW THE FUCK WOULD OTHERS ADVOCATE FOR SOMETHING? PLEASE STATE YOUR FUCKING OPINION ABOUT THE SUBJECT AT HAND SAYING "I AGREE" IS FUCKING MEANINGLESS WHEN YOU CAN'T EVEN SAY WHAT IT IS YOU AGREE WITH OR WHAT YOU AGREE WITH IT ABOUT
pro tip: the differently colored text indicates a link you can click on
Hahaha okay, I get it, you're 14. We were all 14 once.
So that NATO can invade them again and resubjugate them as your near-slaves?
How about no, and how about you stop pretending that you know what's best for the people your empire has harmed and has been harming?
You are yet to remove any of the governments of the colonial metropoles, while storing with colonial oppressors at every turn.
If you want to stop the oppression of the world outside of the Imperial core, you need to do at least something about the states of said core. So far it is only the spooky MLs and other communists that you hate so much who do something viable regarding the matter, including having the 'oppressive' governments that defend their people against your empire.
You are yet to expiration what you think the people in Vietnsm, Cuba, Korea, etc. should have done, and why antagonising us and helping your empire is higher on your priority list than replacing your governments with something else.
You seem to like blaming people for things they don’t actually have direct control of.
You say I want slaves, but I obviously don’t.
You ask why I haven’t removed the government… like I have the button?
It’s very clear you’re not interested in world where everyone comes together. You want a few people to suffer first. And that’s where we differ.
Everything you’re saying about me is wrong. It doesn’t make me feel bad. It just makes you look intolerant.
Say more about how I want to colonize things so I can laugh.
✌️
You have full control over you coming here, antagonising us, and talking about how communists in the rest of the world should have no defense against your empire.
You claim that those governments are/were oppressive, but you are yet to present any viable alternative. Just vague 'oh, they should just have no governments', completely unsupported by history.
Cool. How do you suggest the rest of the world stops subjugation by your empire - which western anarchists like you have not only done nothing against, but have even supported? And do consider that if your suggestion is unsupported by history, you are just being unserious.
So far, it seems that you just want NATO to restore the old colonial gold over the rest of the world.
Why do you want the rest of the world to follow your vision that is unsupported by history that you (plural) have never managed to achieve anywhere, and while being completely against what had worked and what has massively improved people's lives, then? You have no examples to show, and you argue that the rest of the world should be rid of defenses against you.
The USSR was one of the most consistent and successful forces in having most of the world come together to fight colonialism. You argue that that was 'oppressive'.
You quite literally want for people to suffer under capitalism until you somehow topple every government (somehow, while doing nothing and while supporting the states and people who suppress any sort of change for good that does not involve getting rid of governments immediately), and are unwilling to support any changes for the better until then.
You literally claimed that the movements that fought against colonialism and capitalism successfully were somehow had and oppressive.
Haha. You are literally opposed to the liberation of Vietnam, Korea, Mozambique, Cuba, etc., because the liberation movements were 'oppressive'.
I don't mean to imply the use of the "r" word, but are you... like actually cognitively impaired? Do you struggle with linking thoughts together, unironically? Maintaining a train of thought? It's completely fine if you do, no shame at all, but I would appreciate it if you told us if that was the case, because I am genuinely confused at what you think is going on. Knowing wether or not you're struggling with short term memory loss or something would be a great help in furthering this discussion to a positive and productive space or getting you the help you seem to need.
They need to be removed? Wow who will do the removing? Sounds very authoritarian, just removing governments like that. I'm sorry but I can't support that.
Right.
For you, there is no difference between (people being forced to work 14 hours a day, 6 days a week, having no guaranteed access to housing, education and healthcare, women not being protected from marital SA, having a life expectancy of 30 or so years), and literally the opposite with life expectancy rising by 60% within 30 years.
You also see no difference between literal old-style colonialism and the lack thereof. Literal pro-colonial white European child is what you are.
Please, tell us more about compassion and how bad we want to 'oppress' people by giving women fundamental rights, providing people in general with essential needs, including housing and healthcare, eliminating illiteracy, etc.
EDIT: if you want colonialism so much, why don't you volunteer to be treated as people were treated under the Red Rubber laws?
Also, it's funny how you don't want any authority over you, but want to subjugate non-white people as your slave and near-slaves
What? I have no idea where you got that. You just read whatever you want?
This is my problem, you just make shit up. I want everything in your last paragraph. We don’t need to have an oppressive government to make that happen.
Either you do not actually speak about any movement that we support, or you don't see any difference between before and after they succeeded. Which is it?
I literally listed some of the things that the USSR managed to achieve within the first 30 years of its existence. Pretty sure almost all of that also applies to the PRC (just with the different starting line expectancy).
Cool. Then you want the USST, the PRC, Cuba, liberated Korea, etc.
You claim that every movement that achieved those things was 'oppressive'. As such, this claim of yours is unsupported.
EDIT: Also, what is your plan for defending against a NATO invasion?
No response lol
If you are against the dictatorship of the proletariat as a necessary step, then you are not a communist. I don't know if that's what you are saying though, since you are still saying practically nothing at all.
YOU ARE THE ONE DOING THE SHITPOSTING AND DUNKING RIGHT NOW WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT YOU MASSIVE IDIOT
Also hexbear does a lot of community organising and social events, so what the fuck are you even talking about you massive idiot?
HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO THE DISCUSSION GOING ON? CONGRATULATIONS YOU SAID SOMETHING BUT YOU MANAGED TO MAKE IT A COMPLETE NON-SEQUITEUR MAKING YOUR POSITION EVEN MORE VAGUE AND INCOMPREHENSIBLE WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU NEVER TALKED WITH A HUMAN BEING BEFORE?
And what exactly are you doing here, outreach and solidarity? Movement building?
Okay, so, you are saying that you know for a fact that communist orgs 'hyperfocus on bureaucracy'. Which orgs have you been to to know that, I wonder?
Sounds suspiciously as if this is just a vibes-based analysis for you, and that you think that this article painting a picture that coincides worth what you have been told by the people who invaded Iraq and other countries.
No it’s based on observing behavior from ML and hexbear.
Ah, so it is just a vibes-based analysis with you not having any understanding of the topic.
ABOUT WHAT?????? HOW CAN YOU NOT GET IT? WHAT IS THAT BULLET POINT SPOT ON ABOUT? YOU STARTED OUT WITH SAYING YOU AGREE WITH THE ARTICLE, WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE ASKING YOU TO ELABORATE. DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE WORD OR THE CONCEPT?
YOU DID! WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON IN YOUR BRAIN
Well what if you wrote "heil Hitler" instead of what you did write? Then that would be very bad right? So this means you're a nazi.
What the fuck are you talking about? Liberals and making up weird situations that complicate a simple situation, instead of just relating to the situation at hand: Name a more iconic duo.
ABOUT WHAT MOTHERFUCKER? YOU STILL HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT THE ARTICLE IS SPOT ON ABOUT? HOW? HOW DOES IT DESCRIBE LEMMY INSTANCES? WHICH INSTANCES? SAY ANYTHING PLEASE YOU HAVE BEEN ASKED SO MANY TIMES JUST SAY ANYTHING YOU FUCKING DUMBASS
MAYBE???? HOW CAN WE KNOW WHEN YOU SAY NOTHING AT ALL??
My grandmother used to say: If you meet someone who smells like shit, then you probably met someone who stepped in dogshit. If everyone you meet smells like shit, then it's time to check under your shoe.
You think people shouldn't be allowed to respond to you? That sounds pretty authoritarian, you tankie.
Does it make you mad to see others form cooperative relationships? Wistful, even?
Is this the first time you come to any forum and start pissing and shitting all over the place?
Try to mildly criticize western anarchists or liberals and I guarantee that you will get dogpiled immediately.
All i see are western communists.
Well, firstly, you need to check your eyesight, because at the very least I am not a westerner.
Secondly, in case you couldn't understand a sentence worth of text, I suggested you go to a western anarchist or liberal forum and try to antagonise them. You will get swarmed and dogpiled right that instant.
Me when I see a community of people supporting eachother: "Wow, glad I'm not like those people! I've got no one and am all alone, which proves that I am living a healthy life. Very rude of them to ask me about my opinion, especially when I can't explain it. Anyway back to my thousands of online accounts I maintain so I can argue with strangers online. And by argue I mean insult people who keep asking me politely to please explain what it is I believe. This will deal a massive blow to the vague concept of authority somehow. Also the US is a force for good and I need to support it."
You clearly lack reading comprehension. The quoted text is not trying to draw some distinction between "defending" and "celebrating one's accomplishments" and say that the former is bad while the latter is fine. What it does do is point out that the common attack on socialism that accuses actually existing socialist states of being totalitarian hellholes and important historic socialist leaders of being dictators is a load of shit; using a consistent standard to compare them to their contemporaries would reveal that socialism accomplished many wonders starting from extremely difficult conditions and that most "democratic" leaders are far more monstrous than even the nastiest tales cooked up about Stalin and Mao.
Among what I just said and some other things, it makes a point that is very pertinent to this discussion: the characterization of tankies as "uncritically defending authoritarian regimes/dictators" (as asserted by the zine from the OP) and detesting literally all dissent regardless of what the content of that dissent might be (as you asserted) is also a load of shit that depends on treating socialist experiments as radioactive failures that are entirely bad and not worth defending. Tankies are perfectly capable of recognizing and criticizing the mistakes those experiments actually made; the commonly hurled criticisms are torn apart because they are factually wrong and made in bad faith.
Lmao "what if the text said something other than what it said and it was about MAGA instead?" also authoritarianism is made up by the totalitarian CIA you uneducated dork 1 2
We both know you're not gonna read this either though, it's above your grade.