No tankie thinks china is socialist. we think it has the best chance of creating the conditions under which socialism might happen of any government going. It is going to be the next global hegemony if it isn't already. So that means the time for a good lasting socialist project is fast approaching and that is rad.
How is it not socialist? If their stated goal is communism, and they've begun taking action to get there, they are in a transitionary state. Just because they haven't nailed the two most popular theories of successful transition doesn't mean they aren't transitioning. Even if they never establish a dotp or eliminate private property, whatever experiment they are conducting is socialist as long as communism is it's goal, no matter how early on in that experiment they happen to be.
because we define things based on material conditions. They don't have a system you could describe as socialism. They have a system that could describe the prefiguration of socialism. We likely won't be able to tell it's socialism until well after it has actually done the thing and become socialist.
We can be pleased because that is their stated goal, and we can be hopeful what might happen because of those goals. the country is 70 years old more history will need to be observed.
No tankie thinks china is socialist. we think it has the best chance of creating the conditions under which socialism might happen of any government going. It is going to be the next global hegemony if it isn't already. So that means the time for a good lasting socialist project is fast approaching and that is rad.
We think it's a dictatorship of the proletariat. Maybe. We hope.
How is it not socialist? If their stated goal is communism, and they've begun taking action to get there, they are in a transitionary state. Just because they haven't nailed the two most popular theories of successful transition doesn't mean they aren't transitioning. Even if they never establish a dotp or eliminate private property, whatever experiment they are conducting is socialist as long as communism is it's goal, no matter how early on in that experiment they happen to be.
That’s not how I would define socialism, but I understand your point.
How would you define it?
Workers owning the means of production m.
Incredibly non-dialectical way of looking at it.
Well, Marx described it that way, but a bit more specific and in a longer form of definition
because we define things based on material conditions. They don't have a system you could describe as socialism. They have a system that could describe the prefiguration of socialism. We likely won't be able to tell it's socialism until well after it has actually done the thing and become socialist.
We can be pleased because that is their stated goal, and we can be hopeful what might happen because of those goals. the country is 70 years old more history will need to be observed.