"I'm also a Marxist-Leninist."
liberalism
These people are the opportunists you've been warned about. Stop defending them. They're less than useless.
Yeah, he seems to think that % of the economy nationalized = % of the country socialist. Real committed to completely ignoring the concept of imperialism.
Now that Bernie's officially irrelevant I feel like we need to have a reckoning with a lot of these radlibs.
I think this is the real take to be dunked. Yes, NJR posted cringe, whatever. But this example of imperialist mindset had to be constructed in a lab. Like on the one hand you have a country that was colonized, had a dictatorship like 20 years ago and where the empire orchestrated a fascist coup last year, where a indigenous socialist movement fights for their rights and a better future. And of course, there will always be critics who think progress is not made fast enough.
On the other hand you have a nordic european oil rich country with a century long socdem tradition. Yes, they have a great standart of living, but let's be real, you would have to try to fuck this up.
Like what does Matt thinks beaing a socialist means? Median standard of living? see above lmao
%of unionmembers? yeah good comparing a country where thats just the default to one where faacists try to murder you for it
uhh he's woke now that he was fired from the Center for American Progress
AOC, since now imperial core socdems are the same as global south demsocs
Jesus fucking Christ. This is what liberalism does to you. Completely unable to understand things from a broader analysis, just cherry pick stuff out of context and evaluate them tht way. This is like saying "this thief and this subsistence farmer are basically the same because they both donate $10/mo to charity".
"But aoc and evo are both socialist and latines are they not the same?"
If this guy had a shred of good faith he would : "Hmm, perhaps my persona is unattractive to the working class, the correct thing to do is to avoid forcing myself into a public facing role and work to achieve my political aims in the back room."
Instead he's out peacocking like the most privileged brat. Because he's a speech & drama stage school kid thirsty for approval.
fucking politics showbiz ugly people.
he’s out peacocking like the most privileged brat. Because he’s a speech & drama stage school kid thirsty for approval.
Personally attacking fellow leftists because they don't dress the way you like will bring the revolution any day now
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/43263381-why-you-should-be-a-socialist
NJR unironically thinks Social Democracy is Socialism. This book is just "why you should be a social democrat". They're different things.
Getting angry at him is performative and this is a nothing example.
ITT a whole bunch of people who will be going to a Reeducation camp and maybe it won't be one of the nice ones.
It has been
20 days since the last NJR post."AOC is a leftist, actually" isn't even an unpopular sentiment on here; this is weak sauce.
It has been 2 0 days since the last NJR post.
Well yeah, he keeps posting dumb shit.
“AOC is a leftist, actually” isn’t even an unpopular sentiment on here; this is weak sauce.
There were like two posts applauding her on the front page in the past 24 hours.
There were like two posts applauding her on the front page in the past 24 hours.
So why bag on NJR for saying the same thing? Jumping down the throats of fellow leftists over minor shit will get us nowhere.
Call me sentimental but equating the two is honestly an insult to the countless Bolivians who were imprisoned, tortured and murdered over centuries to get to where they are now. Evo isn't just a man and a politician, he's the face of a movement of indigenous people that were enslaved and brutalized and fought valiantly to even have a slight chance of having a government like that of the MAS. Bolivia was a right wing dictatorship until 3 years before Evo was elected. People were still being slaughtered by fascists in 2003. The uncertainty of being a socialist leader in an environment like that is something people in the west can't even comprehend. If AOC loses her seat she's not going to be executed or exiled, she's going to get a cushy sinecure.
Plus, like I pointed out earlier in this thread, it's an objectively wrong take. If AOC is elected president in 2028 and implements her full agenda, bolivians will still have to fight her administration for control over their own resources because we ain't getting a GND without lots of lithium and cobalt etc and I can guarantee you the US government isn't going to want to pay the full price.
It was the shit he said about Evo, that he's a "moderate reformer, not an ML, " and that there was a leftist presence among his opposition (pro-coup propaganda like we've seen in Venezuela, even though it's unintended), as well as equating him and AOC that made me post this. There's numerous things to dump on him for here.
Anyway, he's not a "fellow leftist", he sucks. If you oppose AES like Cuba, we're not on the same side; if you're anti-Marxist and think Lenin was an evil mass murderer, but see getting more social democrats in the Democratic party as the path to socialism, then we're not on the same side; etc. Basically, he's a good representative of that slice of the "democratic socialist" crowd that I think is holding people back by reinforcing liberal ideology and anticommunist propaganda and shepherding people who could be radicalized back into liberal reformism when the world is actively burning and decaying before our eyes. Calling out this opportunist bullshit is meant to clarify where these people stand and why they're not helpful to us or on our side.
People are shitting on him a lot lately, and I honestly think that's great. And I also don't get why so many people are getting upset over his shit takes getting posted in the dunk tank. That's literally what this sublemmy is for.
So do you have a specific problem with anything I said or are you just here to complain about dunks in the dunk tank?
Ok.
post hoc justification
"These people are the opportunists you’ve been warned about. Stop defending them. They’re less than useless."
Right from my post.
And this was what I was responding to:
So why bag on NJR for saying the same thing? Jumping down the throats of fellow leftists over minor shit will get us nowhere.
So I elaborated on what I said in the post from the beginning: opportunists bad, so we should dunk on them. Here's what's wrong with NJR's take.
So it's not a post hoc justification, it's the whole point of the post. Why does dunking on bad takes bother you?
He's not wrong, though? The hard line Marxists in Bolivia don't really like Evo. He is every bit a social democratic reformer. The thing that really makes Evo very different from other reformists is his connection to the indigenous movement in Bolivia. Like he's obviously one of the best leaders we've seen on the continent in decades, buy you don't have to pretend he's actually a Leninist.
At the very least the Communist Party of Bolivia and Communist Party of Bolivia (Marxist-Leninist) support him and MAS.
Here's the first group at a post-victory MAS rally.
The only leftists that I'm aware of that actually formed a part of the opposition were Trots.
Also, Evo does considers himself an ML, and MAS's opposition to imperialism, the nationalizations they've overseen, their alliance with Cuba and Venezuela, and the militia Evo armed (the Red Ponchos) make me think he's more than a social democrat. Even revolutionary communists do electoralism sometimes when they're sufficiently organized and in a position to do so, like in Kerala.
If he's just a reformer (which I don't think is accurate), it would be in the vein of a global south social democrat like Lula, who I don't think is comparable to imperial core social democrats.
See? That's why I lose the faith to live sometimes. A socialist gets into power and there are leftists who want to take him down. Sometimes even justifying a RACIST, NEOLIBERAL COUP against him. I really hope this line of thoufgt doesn't infect the left more like the cancer it is. Fuck him. Just fuck him.
Sometimes even justifying a RACIST, NEOLIBERAL COUP against him.
Are we reading the same tweets? Absolutely nothing about this even comes close to justifying the coup against Morales. He calls Morales an "important, courageous leftist" for shit's sake.
yeah, I kinda went on a rant. im too passionate about some things
If he sucks then why do we give a fuck what he has to say? Stop posting cringe bro
Because plenty of other people don't think he sucks, including some people on this site.
Because we can learn from picking apart what makes his takes so bad.
And because this is literally The Dunk Tank.
Look, a bunch of people are crawling out of the woodwork here to dunk on me for dunking on NJR for an awful take, in the dunk tank.
you're really going to throw a fit over every mildly inconvenient truth being presented in an annoying manner?
there is indigenous left-opposition to morales, yes. and he identifies his political project as socialism in the 21st century, not ML.
It's literally not infighting. NJR's a liberal who's gone on record plenty of times saying that he opposes actual socialism. We're not even on the same side. He obfuscates what socialism means, he tells people that Scandinavia's socialist but Cuba isn't, he says a bunch of chauvinistic bullshit (like in this tweet), spreads anticommunist propaganda, and he's got a decently sized platform. For people like me who think that his style of politics is going to get us nowhere, but who think past movements that he condemns were actually a good model, this is a problem. I gotta say, it's not great!
Pointing out all of this is good, I think. I don't really see how it's going to turn anyone off who isn't already totally married to his style of left liberalism, and hopefully it can let people know that his slice of the DemSucc ecosystem is a dead end.
But also: he annoys me so I like to complain about him - and so do a bunch of other people.
It’s the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
after 10 years in the city I'm now living in a deprived rural environment. the culture shock is insane. illuminati, q, anti abortion are daily topics of conversation. every day.
someone like NJR representing anything left is poison.
people here live in shit, and they kow it, and seeing an ivy league cosplay performance of pg wodehouse telling them about how to think is poison.
You're never going to get one media outlet that appeals perfectly to everyone. Someone who appeals to the tastes of Q people might be just as absurd to a lot of other groups with the potential to turn left.
What's the practical implication here, anyway? "No, you can't start a socialist media outlet unless you meet our undefined dress code?" That seems counterproductive.
NJR should stop being a chauvinistic piece of fucking shit and you should stop sucking him off for it
tryhard shit
Being a detached westerner not caring about bad things is FUCKING EPIC
I like fancy lads that don't insist on being the face of political projects intended to appeal to the deprived working class, while their entire assumed persona is FUCKING POISON to that class.
Also, I'm not going to retreat from the ignorance here. There have been attacks on the homes of immigrants in the last year. Public abuse and intimidation too.
Your dedication to a lib man that has enjoyed such a charmed life that he can live in accented cosplay is admirable. The fact that he insists on being the face and voice of any left project is poison. There is a visceral reaction to what he represents and anything like him. Understand that.
Work on yourself, Comrade.
Also: https://hexbear.net/post/51640
imagine getting triggered every time our fancy boy makes an innocuous tweet
The fact that probably 10x as many "leftists" in the west read his horseshit than actually know what Marxism is is what triggers me.
Evo is anti-imperialist and Bolivia makes their money through domestic production and extraction of their own resources while the US makes its money by exploiting the global south. Even if their nationalization and tax/spend policies were identical, AOC wants a fairer division of imperial plunder while Evo wants a fairer division of the product of of his own people's labor and his own country's resources. That's why Evo is a socialist and AOC isn't.
But marxism is bad and marx was wrong, didnt you read the opinion of our favorite anti-communist NJR, why dont you like an actual socialist state like the uk or scandinavia
That's what social democracy in an Imperialist country is. That's where the US's wealth comes from, we aren't all factory workers and miners anymore. She may or may not have an understanding of this but it's the truth.
AOC isn't calling for the death of American troops, so her foreign policy isn't left enough!
