I had always assumed that if a man had gotten a woman pregnant, then if that pregnancy is carried to term, both partners should be financially responsible for the child regardless whether the man had wanted to have the child or not. The mindset being "they got them pregnant, so you have to face the consequences'".

I was talking with some people online, and they asserted that if the man did not want to have the child, then they should be able to apply to be resolved of any financial responsibility towards caring for it. I was at first against this proposal, but I feel like I now understand it better. Our current legislation was created at a time where abortion was tantamount to murder, and since it was illegal, an obligation of financial responsibility was the only way to ensure that women weren't stranded with children they couldn't afford to raise. But now that we live in a world where abortion is legal (for now), and where abortion procedures are safer than carrying the child to term, there doesn't seem to be a good argument for men still needing to be financially responsible for unwanted children. Men probably would still need to assist in paying for the procedure, but outside of that, I think they had a point. Please explain to me if there is anything I'm failing to consider here.

I also want to apologize for the binary language I used in writing this. I tried at first to write this in a more inclusive way, but I struggled wrapping my head around it. If anyone can educate me in how to write in a way that doesn't disclude non-binary comrades, I would appreciate it.

  • Duo [any]
    2·
    4 years ago

    I would support this if we lived in a society where the child and mother would be guaranteed all the things they need regardless of whether the father is there physically or supporting them monetarily, but in our current society the argument goes: well it's too bad for the father that they have to pay for a child they didn't want, but the alternative is the mother and child being much worse off, and we should prioritize the well-being of the child, who didn't ask to be put into this situation in the first place.

    • ofriceandruin [none/use name]
      7·
      4 years ago

      I'd be careful about the "i'd love to support this, but in our current society" kind of thing. This form of rhetoric is always used to shut down things like medicare for all or cancelling students loans or whatever. We absolutely can have state provide this right now, just like we absolutely can provide things like universal healthcare and education.

    • YeForPrez2020 [he/him]
      4·
      4 years ago

      Yeah that's a good point, I think there are too many issues currently present for there be no support given. Though I still wonder, in that case, isn't it more on the mother for refusing to get an abortion for a child she knows she cannot financially support?

      • sebastian [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        i worry that kind of thinking leads to saying poor people shouldn't have children. i know a lot of poor folks, and a good many of them would be/are great parents. really, we need better social welfare for single parents as a solution

          • kristina [she/her]
            2·
            4 years ago

            youre literally arguing for a man to be able to force an abortion on someone, which would involve things being nonconsensually put into a woman's vagina. /thread

            • ofriceandruin [none/use name]
              8·
              4 years ago

              youre literally arguing for a man to be able to force an abortion on someone,

              Where did Dewot say that? Not doubting you but I don't see it.

                • ofriceandruin [none/use name]
                  6·
                  4 years ago

                  uh oh is this the "Russian" trolls argument? I thought you weren't trying to lib-shame?

                  • kristina [she/her]
                    3·
                    4 years ago

                    no youre an american troll, worse than the russian kind.

                      • ofriceandruin [none/use name]
                        3·
                        4 years ago

                        What could I do to convince you I don’t use sockpuppets? Get an admin to check IP addresses? Is that possible?

                        You can't do anything about it tbh... it's like anti-semitism smears against Corbyn: trying to fight against them is only further evidence in their eyes.

                      • infuziSporg [e/em/eir]
                        ·
                        4 years ago

                        What could I do to convince you I don’t use sockpuppets?

                        Maybe not respond to stuff directed at another user?

                            • ofriceandruin [none/use name]
                              4·
                              4 years ago

                              So people who respond to tweets leveled at AOC are now AOC sockpuppets? I don't know who dewot is and your seeming paranoia about sockpuppets is hyper lib tbh.

                              • infuziSporg [e/em/eir]
                                ·
                                4 years ago

                                So people who respond to tweets leveled at AOC are now AOC sockpuppets?

                                Yes, she can do about two thousand of them an hour.

                                your seeming paranoia about sockpuppets is hyper lib tbh.

                                Contrary to held belief, I am neither @kristina nor @amethystamiss, I just think their suggestion, that 1-hour-old accounts with posts only in one thread are reactionary trolls with dirty genitalia, is likely.

                                • ofriceandruin [none/use name]
                                  4·
                                  4 years ago

                                  Or perhaps I'm someone who lurks and has never posted until now? I'm guessing that's like 90% of the people who visit this board.

                  • ofriceandruin [none/use name]
                    6·
                    4 years ago

                    For obvious reasons I'm not gonna tie my personal IP to this forum so I'm automatically a "sock puppet" troll lol.

              • kristina [she/her]
                2·
                4 years ago

                im not gonna argue with you lmao, youre a fucking reactionary. post your balls i wonder how productive they are.

                  • kristina [she/her]
                    3·
                    4 years ago

                    input into being medically raped? lol. youre parodying yourself

                    personally, i think we've evolved past the need for men. infertile femboys or go home

                      • kristina [she/her]
                        ·
                        4 years ago

                        and your solution is that we force women to have abortions?

                          • ofriceandruin [none/use name]
                            5·
                            4 years ago

                            No. At no point did I ever actually endorse a policy.

                            It's amazing that your detractors didn't seem to notice this, yet they keep repeating it as though you did. You'd think they were CNN or MSNBC.

                          • infuziSporg [e/em/eir]
                            ·
                            4 years ago

                            Society is not some all-potent incorporeal entity. It's made up of people. We know this because we live in it.

                            If the parent as an individual is not undertaking X activity or cost for the benefit of a child, then another person at-large must undertake X activity or cost who doesn't deserve to have to do that.

                            I mean, there are exceptions that prove the rule. If I were to hypnotize a man into sleeping with a woman and a child resulted, I would be responsible to some extent for that outcome.

                            ITT people are defending the idea that people have agency in becoming parents, which is true for people with a womb maybe 90% of the time and true for people with testes >99% of the time.

                            • ofriceandruin [none/use name]
                              6·
                              4 years ago

                              If the parent as an individual is not undertaking X activity or cost for the benefit of a child, then another person at-large must undertake X activity or cost who doesn’t deserve to have to do that.

                              I mean, there are exceptions that prove the rule. If I were to hypnotize a man into sleeping with a woman and a child resulted, I would be responsible to some extent for that outcome.

                              Is that you, Jordan Peterson?

                                • ofriceandruin [none/use name]
                                  5·
                                  4 years ago

                                  You just made Jordan Peterson talking points lolol. My points are no more MRA talking points than saying "hey maybe we should recognize that de-industrialization has hurt the white working class" is an alt-right talking point. This is some real lib-brain analysis tbh.