In one sense I agree with you and I'm pretty left unity gang generally. But imperialist discourse is so fucking extreme and the pandemic has made the necessity of a disciplined state command economy so vital I think that anarchism is really being shown up for a lot of its deficiencies at the moment
"The Communists are distinguished from the other working-class parties by this only:
In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality
In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole."
So you disagree with Marx that communists should “point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality?” It’s like a basic principle of proletarian internationalism.
America is currently the strongest capitalist nation, although as you point out and as evidenced by the military failures, US imperialism has been on the decline in relative strength as the US loses ground economically. The vacuum from that relative decline is taken up by other imperialist powers, and capitalism marches on on the backs of the international working class.
Nice rant, you managed to be completely non-responsive.
So, again, you disagree with Marx on the basic principle of proletarian internationalism? Because all I posted was a quote from the communist manifesto and your brain spewed out all that nonsense about “supreme evil” (talk about making your politics religious).
I don’t support the Democratic Party, period, including AOC or Sanders. I don’t support US imperialism. I stand in solidarity with the working class in China, as I do with the rest of the international working class.
Based on that internationalism, I don’t support the betrayal of the Chinese revolution, throwing away the gains of that revolution, and the reinstatement of the rule of the bourgeoisie in China. You can talk all you want about how America is the greater “evil,” but it doesn’t change that analysis.
Really solid analysis to conflate working class with ruling class. I’m a black American working class person, none of this shit is “mine.” It’s not my government, not my wealth, not imperialism for my benefit.
You clearly went to some American school in Chile or something and your dad probably owns a factory, but yea go off.
And by virtue of all that plundering, which working class people have no say in, and by your own logic, American workers and poor have quite a bit to gain by taking ownership and control of the productive forces.
You go ahead and reject working class internationalism and see where that gets you. Go on a walking tour of East Saint Louis and explain to the people you meet how they benefit from the spoils of imperialism.
I really do insist you take your Private school education and go on a walking tour of East Saint Louis and explain to people how they benefit from the spoils of imperialism and are warmongering fascists.
Its funny how you’re writing all of this shit as a roundabout way of defending the reinstatement of capitalism in China.
Yea, I oppose imperialism, and moreover oppose capitalism, the logic and rules of which create imperialism. You’re not going to get rid of imperialism without getting rid of capitalism, and you’re probably not going to get rid of world capitalism without the working class in the USA taking power. Hate to break it to you.
Again, it’s not my regime and not my government. I make no apologies for them and they should be overthrown along with the entirety of the US ruling class.
You’re not from China, so why are you so invested in apologizing for the Chinese bourgeoisie?
Again none of this is "mine," I'm a working class person and I'm only in the US because my ancestors were slaves. I have a considerably negative net worth. And again, I'm a marxist, and actively work to overthrow the ruling class you're describing.
But let's look at your concrete advice on strategy--"go to washington and riot until the regime comes down." That's stupid and not actually a strategy. "Explain to people why imperialism is bad." Again, stupid, idealist, and not a strategy.
You do nothing besides post, guaranteed. But keep ranting. You're not going to convince me to stan the capitalist class in China or anywhere else, but if it makes you feel better about attending the Milton Friedman school of Viceroy-ism in Valparaiso, by all means continue.
Lol, you fought the good fight, comrade. This guy just really stans Jack Ma, and believes the entire American left is Bernie Sanders. Nothing that can be done to convince them of... anything.
I'm not an anarchist myself, I'm more of a Demosc (I'm heavily electoralist for personal reasons) with Maoist influences (my theory itself is largely maoist-derived) So I'm not a fan of an echo chamber for either MLs or anarchists.
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In one sense I agree with you and I'm pretty left unity gang generally. But imperialist discourse is so fucking extreme and the pandemic has made the necessity of a disciplined state command economy so vital I think that anarchism is really being shown up for a lot of its deficiencies at the moment
Sincerely,
DBTraven
Wait can we all sign off on our comments now?
- 7DeadlyFetishes
That doesn't mean we need to jack of Xi Jingping with every post.
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Look everyone, someone wants to have more libs.
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"The Communists are distinguished from the other working-class parties by this only:
In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality
In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole."
(https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm)
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So you disagree with Marx that communists should “point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality?” It’s like a basic principle of proletarian internationalism.
America is currently the strongest capitalist nation, although as you point out and as evidenced by the military failures, US imperialism has been on the decline in relative strength as the US loses ground economically. The vacuum from that relative decline is taken up by other imperialist powers, and capitalism marches on on the backs of the international working class.
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Nice rant, you managed to be completely non-responsive.
So, again, you disagree with Marx on the basic principle of proletarian internationalism? Because all I posted was a quote from the communist manifesto and your brain spewed out all that nonsense about “supreme evil” (talk about making your politics religious).
I don’t support the Democratic Party, period, including AOC or Sanders. I don’t support US imperialism. I stand in solidarity with the working class in China, as I do with the rest of the international working class.
Based on that internationalism, I don’t support the betrayal of the Chinese revolution, throwing away the gains of that revolution, and the reinstatement of the rule of the bourgeoisie in China. You can talk all you want about how America is the greater “evil,” but it doesn’t change that analysis.
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Lol, such cringe LARPing bullshit. What org are you in?
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Lol okay. Perfect English by the way, but I’m sure your country yearns for freedom.
Which country? I probably have comrades there.
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Really solid analysis to conflate working class with ruling class. I’m a black American working class person, none of this shit is “mine.” It’s not my government, not my wealth, not imperialism for my benefit.
You clearly went to some American school in Chile or something and your dad probably owns a factory, but yea go off.
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Anti-Marxist bullshit. Settlers sucks.
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And by virtue of all that plundering, which working class people have no say in, and by your own logic, American workers and poor have quite a bit to gain by taking ownership and control of the productive forces.
You go ahead and reject working class internationalism and see where that gets you. Go on a walking tour of East Saint Louis and explain to the people you meet how they benefit from the spoils of imperialism.
deleted by creator
I really do insist you take your Private school education and go on a walking tour of East Saint Louis and explain to people how they benefit from the spoils of imperialism and are warmongering fascists.
deleted by creator
Its funny how you’re writing all of this shit as a roundabout way of defending the reinstatement of capitalism in China.
Yea, I oppose imperialism, and moreover oppose capitalism, the logic and rules of which create imperialism. You’re not going to get rid of imperialism without getting rid of capitalism, and you’re probably not going to get rid of world capitalism without the working class in the USA taking power. Hate to break it to you.
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Again, it’s not my regime and not my government. I make no apologies for them and they should be overthrown along with the entirety of the US ruling class.
You’re not from China, so why are you so invested in apologizing for the Chinese bourgeoisie?
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Again none of this is "mine," I'm a working class person and I'm only in the US because my ancestors were slaves. I have a considerably negative net worth. And again, I'm a marxist, and actively work to overthrow the ruling class you're describing.
But let's look at your concrete advice on strategy--"go to washington and riot until the regime comes down." That's stupid and not actually a strategy. "Explain to people why imperialism is bad." Again, stupid, idealist, and not a strategy.
You do nothing besides post, guaranteed. But keep ranting. You're not going to convince me to stan the capitalist class in China or anywhere else, but if it makes you feel better about attending the Milton Friedman school of Viceroy-ism in Valparaiso, by all means continue.
Lol, you fought the good fight, comrade. This guy just really stans Jack Ma, and believes the entire American left is Bernie Sanders. Nothing that can be done to convince them of... anything.
o7
This feels more like ML raddle at this point than ChapoTrapHouse.
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I'm not an anarchist myself, I'm more of a Demosc (I'm heavily electoralist for personal reasons) with Maoist influences (my theory itself is largely maoist-derived) So I'm not a fan of an echo chamber for either MLs or anarchists.
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'Yes.meme'
The people who managed to make the jump here are way more online than even the regular sub posters, it's gonna be like this for awhile yet.
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Yeah for real, and it's almost always angry tankies. Can we have some left unity?
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Same mab, I just wanna grill
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