Are you implying that none of those people who became socdems cause of Bernie went on to become actual leftists? I know that’s how my radicalization process started, and I’m sure a lotta people on here had the same story even if they’re too embarrassed to admit it
Most Americans had no concept of politics to the left of Obama before Bernie Sanders. To act like he failed to radicalize people because they didn’t instantly go from shitlibs to Marxist-Leninists is disingenuous af and totally ignores how most people (in America at least) actually get radicalized
Yes, there seems to be a tendency on the left to totally ignore the right's success in building a pipeline towards their beliefs, and instead complain about anyone doing anything short of preaching perfect leftist orthodoxy to the choir. No, we shouldn't be satisfied with Bernie as the standard-bearer for the left. But as a tool for getting people part of the way through their radicalisation? He seems like a positive to me.
No one is trying to cancel the rich brooklyn libs, we just don't like them
same here. he's definitely had a LOt of disappointing views and the average sanders supporter isnt great, but i think he has created a lot of genuine comrades
Bernie is inadequate in a lot of ways and definitely not a real anti imperialist, but it's clear that a lot of powerful people considered him a threat to their material interests, and I think they were right.
The movement Bernie's campaigns built is not tied to his personality and its liberal characteristics are holdovers from the political status quo. It's not as if Berniecrats explicitly champion the Nordic model over socialism, they're advocating it over the demonstrably worse American system. Does that make them right to believe in social democracy? No, but it does mean they aren't economic reactionaries. Someone who thinks Bernie supporters are irrevocable liberals who will never be convinced is just bad at convincing.
Also there's the matter of the large number of people who did get legitimately radicalized after being Bernie supporters. You can theorize all you want about why they shouldn't exist, but they do.
Well I have seen that actual opinion, but moreso I'm just talking about people who are way overly pessimistic about Bernie voters. Just remember that social democracy in opposition to neolib hell is very different from social democracy in opposition to socialism.
this is all true.
one thing I absolutely don't miss from the sub is overton window BS - let's not bring it back for this post.
That's cause you can't say it without sounding like a crank.
I bet if people started saying it and started talking about it, the idea would be more popular than we think.
Going from a socdem to a Marxist-Leninist isn’t much of a jump. I wanted no wars, no money in politics, GND, M4A, etc. The establishment and their donors are the bourgeoisie, but the reason why we have all these problems in the first place is because of capitalism itself and that can’t be reformed and social democracy will absolutely not be voted in, as we saw earlier this year. Until you explain the ideas, however, most socdems probably aren’t going to make the necessary connections, and that just hasn’t happened yet on a large scale like a popular presidential campaign. We have yet to see if something like that even can happen in America. I reckon there are less than one million communists here. It’s no where near being mainstream yet.
Sanders served his purpose, as did Corbyn in the UK. Both of them acted a pipeline, and appealed to a large demographic of folks who have lost everything (or never had anything to begin with). By their defeats, a large portion of people who were ready to compromise for reforms will simply discover reform is no longer an option for such a system, as it never was in the first place. they also did something relatively ambivalent, which was to reintroduce socialism to the Anglosphere, you can now call yourself a socialist, for good or ill, on TV without getting the same reaction you'd have gotten 30 years ago.
So it's not all doom and gloom. The next 4 years are going to be absolutely bonkers. Apathy is death, and considering Biden explicitely says nothing will change, the current state of affairs can only go horribly awry; which will radicalize those who were still sceptical about revolution. Hell, many of on this site are "new" leftists, who just came aboard because their material conditions got to shit over a quick period.
Inequalities are far worse than what they were under feudal France, and a large chunk of people are losing everything they have. How long do you think this will go on without them noticing a pattern ? I also do wish to remind you the left 10 years ago was non-exitent in the US, and the mere mention of M4A would get you labelled as a pinko commie. The last 8 years saw left-wing activism reborn in the USA, yes it's not perfect right now, but it's infinitely better than the neolib consensus that existed prior to 2020.
the one thing sanders supporters were famous for saying was that sanders was as far left as they were willing to go. It was in the motto and everything