HOT TAKE! It can't be both.

NephewAlphaBravo phrased this better than I did.

Inviting libs means inviting a constant stream of new users’ shitty takes. “Place where we constantly rehash this shit with libs” is in direct tension with “place where trans users can just chill and not have to rehash this shit”

I'm not trying to say "a good lib-to-left pipeline community means we shouldn't fight transphobia".

I'm saying we should decide if we want to clap up all Transphobia and protect our feelings, or engage with people that might only have a few brain worms and sort them out in order to grow a larger community.

Ban trenched in transphobes. Acknowledge that being transphobic is the default in 2021 and many people who identify as leftist probably have some transphobic views. Last year I didn't like neo-pronouns and I quickly had my mind changed. A few years ago I agreed with Obama when he said BLM were thugs. Is this supposed to be a community where people like me can come to learn and be radicalized?

    • Doomer [comrade/them,any]
      ·
      4 years ago

      People coming here who aren't alread leftists will harbour some reactionary views. People who are new to the Left will post unsavory things. Education and rehabilition will never happen for those people if we ban them.

      It may even leave a bad taste in their mouth and turn them away from the Left. I'm not saying we should excuse their behavior, but try to correct it.

      It's important for us to ask what the intention of this website is supposed to be. Is it a safe space for far-left individuals, or a place for Libs to come and slide to the left?

      • Saint [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        We shouldn't be alienating our trans comrades for the sake of this hypothetical species of lib unicorn who is totally okay with us celebrating cop deaths and talking about how great Mao is but who somehow also can't help themselves from not just thinking but posting TERF shit. If you had any good faith interest in making this site a more effective pipeline for reactionaries, "throw existing trans users under the bus" clearly wouldn't be your starting point

      • Moosegender [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        You do realize plenty of libs are trans inclusive and plenty of leftists are reactionary right? Reading theory doesn’t make you immune to bigotry. Look at stupidpol

        • Bedandsofa [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Based on looking at stupidpol twice, I assure you very few people there are actually reading theory. Literally the first/top post I saw was in support of Andrew Yang, who is a Silicon Valley capitalist, and the argument was that he is closer to being a socialist than any other US politician. Their group description is laughable, because, while there is a Marxist critique of identity politics, 100% of the posts have nothing to do with Marxism.

          • Moosegender [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            They have theory stickied on the top. Which is more than you can say about chapo.

            And no one actually reads theory. So they are like every other leftist space.

        • Polemarchos [none/use name]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Most leftists back in the day were transphobic, Stalin shot gay people. It's a dangerous reality we need to be aware of.

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I agree to an extent, but taking this too far leaves weird fucked up ideologies to fester.

        For example, imagine if someone who has shitty ideas about race is interested in universal Healthcare. If they don't reform their views on the former, any radicalization will only turn them into a Nazbol.

        And frankly, I wouldn't want to hang out on a site with a bunch of Nazbols or TERFS.